Pot bust yields more than 600 plants near Manley
Published Wednesday, June 24, 2009
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Stumble It!FAIRBANKS — Authorities have broken up what prosecutors called a $2 million per year marijuana business.
John Tobe Larson, 49, of Alaska, and Brandon Phillips, 33, of Texas, have each been charged with two counts of felony drugs misconduct in connection with growing marijuana at the Eureka Gold Mine.
The Alaska Bureau of Alcohol and Drug Enforcement contacted the men Tuesday in Manley, near Mile 139 Elliott Highway after investigating the operation.
Investigators seized 636 mature marijuana plants and 50 pounds of processed marijuana. The total weight of all the seized marijuana, if processed, is estimated to be 200 pounds. Lights, generators and other growing equipment were taken.
Phillips is reportedly cooperating with investigators. He told them that a friend introduced him to Larson because Larson grew pot in the area for 20 years and would pay Phillips $500 per day to harvest it, according to a criminal complaint filed in court.
The marijuana would then be put in duffle bags and flown out on Larson’s Cessna 170B. The operation processed 10 pounds of marijuana per week and sold for $4,000 per pound, according to the complaint.
A calendar with details of how much marijuana was harvested each week was found at the scene.
At his arraignment Wednesday, Phillips said he had only been in Alaska a couple months.
“I just really want to go home,” he said. “I don’t know what else to do. I’ve cooperated with investigators.”
Bail for both men was initially set at $2,500, though Phillips’ bail was raised to $7,500 after the presiding magistrate heard more about the extent of the alleged operation. Prosecutors were looking to raise Larson’s bail late Wednesday afternoon after he posted $2,500.
Neither man has any prior criminal history.
Community Discussion
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phillips-yah, go home and tell everyone that your a rat and could'nt take responsibility for your own actions.
LEGALIZE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
roadtrip - Got that right! What a bunch of wasted time, energy, and money for a gall-dernd plant that has never killed anybody in its ten thousand year history! Legalize it, and stop making people with no criminal history into criminals for growing a bunch of plants that millions of consenting adults want to purchase. Come on Alaska, let's legalize the stuff and stop this ridiculous waste of resources!
Christ sake, how much damn time and money do we waste each year arresting and prosecuting folks that grow a natural plant, I mean marijuana?
The time has come to legalize marijuana once and for all. Especially considering that both alcohol and tobacco are still legal. Talk about hypocrital!
No kidding, and this is the only thing any of us actually agree on, every time. That says a lot right there...lol :) Legalize it.
Another small business goes belly up and two more people are unemployed. Maybe they'll be eligible for welfare or a stimulus grant.
Two million dollar a year drug operation, multiple felony counts, and Magistrate Harbison sets bail at $2,500?!! Is she serious?
Are you kidding me? Probably 50-60% of the interiors supply of Marijuana that has been ongoing for decades is quashed, and they even get a bail at all? Much less $2500? We will see what the Feds say...
More wasted time and money. I agree legalize it.
Pat
I thought the government was trying to create and protect jobs and spending....oh well...
People can cry "legalize it" until the cows come home....but until the legislature does something about it, it is still breaking the law.
This was not some guy with one or two plants for personal use, this was a 2 million plus a year operation. Think long and hard about what the money was probably being used for. Somehow I doubt it was going toward the betterment of our community.
Somehow it could have benefited our community.
I know people who imbibe, their personality sucks without it, thats how it benefits me.
Great job, nothing good comes from it, I say burn it all, and send them to jail for years. It's not legal and that is that. Now let's get the ATV's off the streets and Bicycle paths.
yeah, burn it all.....Ill plan a picnic.
Burn it all. And force all the dope smokers to watch while it burns!
Would be great if all the law enforcement agencies compiled a nice DVD of pot plants being destroyed just to harass political dope smokers. :-)
Ooooh, a picnic? I can bring brownies!
SnowShoeHair, wanna swap recipies?
This is such a waste of time and resources.
Go catch a pedophile!
MrsS
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This is a total waste of money and time of LE officers.
I second the foregoing opinions that say LEGALIZE IT... WASTE OF LEO TIME... RIDICULOUS... GO CATCH A PEDOPHILE OR AT LEAST A **REAL** CRIMINAL...
NolaUrels - "I know people who imbibe, their personality sucks without it, thats how it benefits me." Maybe we know some of the same people. lol
Thank you for thinking of me, MBinAK, but I'd be looking for a supply of Hemp-The Wonder Plant!, which doesn't get people high. Isn't it positively bizarre though, that these guys would still be headed to prison for growing industrial hemp, even though it has no psychoactive properties whatsoever? The drug war on Americans is a big fat farce. Think Alaska is ready for a ballot measure in 2010?
Damn, now I have the munchies! ;)
bacon cheeseburger.
Bacon cheeseburger after having some good old brownies.
I hope the IRS is involved...Tax...Tax...like the rest of us.
I couldn't agree more with y'all. Total waste of resources. Decriminalize marijuana already.
TAX Pot SALES > DUH
Don't bogart that joint my friend pass it over to me.
Legalize it.
Tomorrow the story will be that no pot was found and it was a gram of coke.
The only downside I could ever see to legalizing weed is if you are driving and get pulled over. As THC can stay in your system up to 60 days or more, depending on your blood level, you could foreseeably get a conviction of driving under the influence of the drug when you hadn't smoked in hours, or days, and weren't high at all. Otherwise, I agree; it's a lot less harmful than alcohol, that's for sure.
Legalize it and remember only dopes smoke dope.
You may change your opinion someday if you need it for medical reasons gilf. Keep believing what the government tells you.
Alaska's only agricultural export?
--
I can see tomorrow's head line:
"Thousands of UAF Students march demanding an End to the Drug War"
Once again Doris has this pegged.Doris i totally agree with you on this.Seems like i am always agreeing with you're stance.
Does anyone have suggestions on how to find some green in a non threatning ending up in jail way, also before I moved here i thought you were allowed a certain amount, is this idea actually false?
yeah it's just a plant, legalize it so I can grow poppy yipee! Poppy is a plant to.. what a bunch of idiots..
One reason it doesn't need to be legalized is simple read this thread, you can tell who the "burn outs" are..
A bunch of people were talking about this at work tonight, and they told me something, but I'm not sure if they were kidding: they said there is a law on the books that says here in Alaska it is legal to grow pot in small quantities, and legal to smoke it on your own property, but you cannot purchase it from someone else, or sell it to anyone else. They said Alaska has pretty much the most reasonable and lenient attitudes about marijuana, more so than most other states. Is that true?
A friend of mine in Wa got caught for pot and the cop told her to go get a medical marijuana licence and the ticket would get thrown out she did,it was. Crucible...I would rather have pot head friends than CRACK HEADS OR DRUNKS! Seems that is your biggest problem in Fairbanks.
No ktsue, it is not true. A more thorough explanation can be found here:http://newsminer.com/news/2009/jun/16/ask-trooper-june-15/?ask-a-trooper
And in April the state supreme court again held that having or growing pot, even in your own home, is illegal.
Actually chelly, if you will re-read the article you referenced, you will see that it says that the State Supreme Court didn't nmake a ruling on the case in April and according to the legislature it is illegal but the judicial branch still recognizes the Ravin decision, making possession of small amounts in the home legal.
Make it all legal, it wont take long before price will bottom out and it will no longer be worth growing. The war on drugs is the only thing keeping the dealers in business. It would also clean up the gene pool, the overdoses would take care of the weak of the herd. For those who belive you can not DIE from an overdose of pot, I have a story to tell you..
We tried this same scam with alcohol until the american people
finally wised up and threw out that law. We are so long overdue
to do the same with pot laws and quit loading up our jails with ones
who are doing no harm to anyone or society and keeping our justice
system fat with their seziures of property.
Dont expect anything to happen as long as we keep electing these
bible thumpers who are behind the toughening up of the pot laws in
alaska. Contact your state representative and ask them to change
the law. You will then know which one of these turkeys you need to
get rid of next time around.
I don't smoke it, but it needs to be legalized and taxed like alcohol. Booze kills 1000000% more folks a day than weed EVER did.
I want to hear the death from overdose story, with some type of verifiable proof, bugger.
The one crop people know that makes money in this State. By the way read the Raven Case and you will see limited amount of pot is legal in this State. If pot grows so well, why not hemp.
Legalize it. Tax it.
Bahahahahahahahah--"I think people need to be educated to the fact that marijuana is not a drug. Marijuana is an herb and a flower. God put it here. If He put it here and He wants it to grow, what gives the government the right to say that God is wrong?”-Willie Nelson
“Even if one takes every reefer madness allegation of the prohibitionists at face value, marijuana prohibition has done far more harm to far more people than marijuana ever could.”-William F. Buckley Jr.
“I tried marijuana once. I did not inhale.”-Need I say?
"Penalties against possession of a drug should not be more damaging to an individual than the use of the drug itself, and where they are they should be changed."-Jimmy Carter
"If John Lennon is deported, I'm leaving too...with my musicians..and my marijuana."-Art Garfunkel
"Music and herb go together. It's been a long time now I smoke herb. From 1960s, when I first start singing."-Bob Marley
"Make the most of the Indian Hemp Seed and sow it everywhere."-George Washington
"[In] my era everybody smoked and everybody drank and there was no drug use"-DEA Chief Thomas Constantine
"When you return to this mundane sphere from your visionary world, you would seem to leave a Neapolitan spring for a Lapland winter - to quit paradise for earth - heaven for hell! Taste the hashish, guest of mine - taste the hashish!"-Alexander Dumas, 'The Count of Monte Cristo'
"When you leave home with one lighter and come home with three the road trip to your friends was a good one."-Regular Guy
"When even one American who has done nothing wrong is forced by fear to shut his mind and close his mouth, then all Americans are in peril."-Harry S. Truman
"When I was a kid I inhaled frequently. That was the point."-Barack Obama
"La cucaracha, la cucaracha, Ya no puede caminar, Porque no tiene, porque le falta, Marijuana que fumar."-Pancho Villa
And for you South Park fans out there "Don't forget to bring a towel!"-Towely
Great job AK LEO's
I see thet didn't take his plane, I hope they do.
More scum off the streets!
I think with the high price of tobbacco taxes, we should support some lower cost smoking product that produces the similar effects. Back in the day when we had large grow opperations in our Borough we had much less property taxes, and much less population, maybe even the costs of heat and electricity was much less. We could always burn hash pellets, and from the food we eat, from the munchies, that could keep us warm as well. Lets open the bars 24/7, and cut the taxes on Alcohol that way the businesses will make huge proffits and employ more people and when the pot dealers come around we can all go over to the local resturants and keep more people employed.
Oh, but personaly I think pot smokers seem to be total idiots.
To the legislature: You respresent the people of the state, and I see an overwhelming cry here for legalization and taxation of this PLANT. Do your jobs and represent!
This is a sad day...
>>>""And in April the state supreme court again held that having or growing pot, even in your own home, is illegal.""<<<
Not true at all, Chelly.
What the State Supremes decided was to permit BOTH the 1975 Ravin Decision AND Murkie's insane new cannabis laws (courtesy of Jay Ramras) to stand in contradiction to each other; they stated clearly that they decided not to decide.
Here's their decision:
http://www.state.ak.us/courts/ops/sp-635...
The 1975 Ravin Decision is -still- law, and the last three times that y'all tried to undermineit, you carried your tails home in a basket.
Pot is not the problem....(I wish I made $15,000 a month for a paycheck!!) Anyways...watch and see....he will get more time then someone running someone over killing a human life. This system is screwed.
I guess that in fairness, I should add that Ravin (not 'Raven', but rather 'Ravin,' as in 'Irwin Ravin,' the former attorney and focus of the Ravin Decision)didn't technically legalize cannabis in the privacy of one's home, nor did the state legislature's 1983 codification of the 1975 Ravin Decision; it 'protected it' under rights of privacy.
No, federal law doesn't 'trump' state law in state court. Federal law trumps state law in FEDERAL court, unless the state court involves a violation of individual rights that are recognized under federal law, such as precedent, etc., associated with the Bill of Rights (unreasonable search, discrimination, rights of due process, etc..)
Further more, there was a ruling by a federal circuit court last year that casts question on a previous State Supreme Court ruling re. the State's obligation to return wrongfully seized cannabis to its rightful owners.
In the State Supreme Court ruling in Jane Roe/Jane Doe's request for protection in light of Murkowski's 'law,' (linked above) Justice Carpenetti thoroughly addresses the majority opinion's errors re. their 'decision not to decide; Carpenetti was recently voted into the Chief Justice slot, by the way.
Carpenetti's arguments are correct, and there has been rumor that the attorneys for the two women in the case may ask for reconsideration.... With a possibility of being successful in that request.
Otherwise, the next person popped for a small amount of cannabis for personal use in their home, with no evidence of sales or other risk factors, might consider suing the State for violating a state right that has never been over-turned.
See the movie "Home Grown". Regulating the aggreculture industry is a veryfine place to start. Why hasn't our State Employee Unions figured that one out yet? For the local economy promoting agreculture is a good thing.
Legalize it, so the rest of us have a chance at the good stuff, not just the cops!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By the way, the personal use possession limit, as established by the 1983 legislative codification of Ravin (HB 180 and SB 190), was 4 oz. or less.
The 1 oz. limit (improperly compromised by Judge Collins in the early phases of Jane Doe's and Jane Roe's request for protection) was vacated by the State Supremes in the case that's linked above.
Small favors.
Either legalize marijuana or criminalize both alcohol AND tobacco. Especially considering that both alcohol and tobacco KILL hundreds of thousands of people each year. Having marijuana, which is a naturally growing plant, still illegal is one of the most hypocrital laws there currently is.
Marijuana should have already been legalize a long time ago.
I'll add a final comment here.
The 'Crocker Decision' (State court precedent involving an Anchor Point case) states that the LEOs cannot be granted (and should therefore not apply for) a search warrant for cannabis or cannabis grow operations unless there is specific evidence that the amounts involved exceed the aggregate weight limits or uses involved in the 1983 codification of Ravin.
Let's see if the LEOs are as good at following their laws as they are at coercing others to do so.
Legalize, so we can all grow and export it to China.
China's already sending hemp fiber (and perhaps hemp veggie oil?) to us (as are Korea, France, Canada, etc.); in that repressive system, they're permitted to farm low THC (<1%) hemp.
Now let's all celebrate our 'freedom' and 'individual liberty.'
Was this guy growing hemp for weaving? I think not. That issue is completely irrelevant to this story.
It was in re. to Sublime Magic's commetn about China and exportation.
Both hemp for weaving and cannabis for smoking (closely genetically related, as 'cannabis sativa' is the species of low-THC hemp crops), are the targets of federal intervention, state LE distraction, and covered under the SAME laws as higher THC recreational vice or medicinal-use cannabis.
Dirk, I'm pretty sure this amount exceeded the amounts laid out in Ravin (and so your point is...?, and by the way Ravin "codified" nothing, since for something to be "codified" there has to be a law or "code" on the books. Ravin set legal precedent for folks to follow, true, but outside of case law you will find no codification anywhere about what you are talking about.
Bunch of brilliant legal eagles on here.
$4000 a pound..... Man that must have been some good sh*t!
Bugger - "It would also clean up the gene pool, the overdoses would take care of the weak of the herd. For those who belive you can not DIE from an overdose of pot, I have a story to tell you.." OK, I'm waiting to hear your OD on pot story. ...crickets...
Big Macs have killed more people than pot ever will, Bugger. Or is that your story? A person smoked marijuana, then ended up eating too many Big Macs and died of a heart attack?
Even if you can come up with a case or two in which people were allergic and died, you'll never catch up with cigarettes and alcohol to match the death rate for humans. I'll grant you the one true danger of marijuana smoking in conjunction with alcohol, is that the thing in pot that makes a person not throw up, that helps in chemo and AIDS related illness, can make them OD on alcohol, because they don't throw up when they should when drinking alcohol. Alcohol is a poison and will kill you if you drink too much of it. It has killed lots of people that way, especially college students with their drinking games. Talk about gene pool cleansing! :-)
The people growing this pot had NO prior criminal history. All they did was grow a cash crop that a LOT of people evidently wanted to buy. It should not be a crime to cultivate, sell, or use.
Marijuana and/or Hemp-The Wonder Plant! does not harm people like most of the products available today do, especially the three biggies, alcohol, cigarettes, and prescription drugs. But those are obviously harmful things. There are studies that show how the breakfast cereals millions of Americans feed their kids every morning kills rats faster than the boxes the cereals come in. I'm not kidding. It's just the way our food production/delivery system has evolved at the hands of the corporate food machine. But it doesn't mean we have to adhere to their nutritionally-void, profit intensive plan. What I'm saying, is that marijuana is less harmful than the cereal most Americans feed their kids every morning, yet we reward the cereal killers with billions of dollars, and imprison the people who grow plants that have never killed anybody. In fact, Hemp-The Wonder Plant! seeds would improve nutrition in America and bring down health care costs considerably, but they're illegal!
I'll bet you a dollar to a doughnut that if marijuana is legalized that alcohol and prescription drug use will plummet. No wonder the big guys are running scared. I have to admit though, that sales in doughnuts and killer cereals will probably soar. :-)
Bugger - ...crickets...
As to industrial hemp, FWIW I am in complete agreement that is should be legal. Good luck getting that by the current ag lobby camped outside of the US Capitol.
Now what the authorities need to do is have a weedburning bonfire and let us know the time and place of the party!
Sounds like a opportunity for some entrepreneur to fill a need. Tax free too!
I'd say this guy is much smarter than our government. He found a way to make a great deal of money without doing harm to anyone, either physically or financially. I'd say he is much less a criminal than most of our politicians!!
Crucible, I don't think you can tell anything about the people commenting on this topic, other than they believe mature adults should be able to police themselves. This is one of the reasons we live in AK. It is apparent that smoking marijuana mellows people out, and I see how that would be contradictory to the end result of our military. That's why they only allow our soldiers to become alcoholics; it makes them "bong with their brothers"...I mean "bond" with their brothers, lose good judgement and gives the feeling of being invincible. That's what the military leaders love.
decriminalize marijuana! let the cops worry about greater issues, like domestic violence, gang activity, alcoholism, meth use...i'd rather have the cops busting up problems that will benefit me and my community. furthermore, they bust these people and then they get to use all the ''forfeited'' property to fund other operations. can you imagine? there's a reason why citizens of AK are legally allowed to possess up to four ounces of pot.
http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/dll/noy1...
flyer, Before you begin with your clearly uninformed put-downs, if you had read my posts, you'd have seen where I referenced the legislative codification -OF- Ravin, the hearings of which took place in late '82, taking effect in March of 1983. The actual Ravin Decision took place in May 1975.
Yes, Ravin was codified; the 4-oz. limit was the -direct- product of that codification that took effect in 1983, at the same time that the State otherwise adopted the 1970 Federal Controlled Substances Act, with the exception of creating a 6th schedule for cannabis (please note that under the 1970 CSA, cannabis is schedule 1, and in the State of alaska it's schedule 6; a schedule which doesn't exist under federal law...)...
And you got your education about Alaska cannabis law.... where?
Speaking of 'legal eagles,' I'd say that you need to grow some wings...
Law enforcement agencys will never do anything to prevent the arrests of victimless crimes like growing weed or the average DUI because its feeding there children.
Same old arguments... "it is just a plant!!" well so is cocaine and opium. We do not need another mind-altering drug legalized PERIOD.
POT HEADS = LOSERS
By the way, Flyer, I still have the original copies in my archives of the legislative bills that codified Ravin, and which I used as reference in 1982/1983, during the hearings re. HB 180 and SB 190, from that legislative session.
Ravin never referenced a 4-oz. restriction, but rather referred to 'small amounts for personal use.'
Ravin, and the May 1975 legislative actions that preceded Ravin by ~10 days, permitted for unspecified amouts, and a 1978 Potter's Flats case, preceding the codification of Ravin, saw a State court order the return of 23 lbs. to its original owner. Likewise, a Kenai case in that same year, involving attorney Bill Bixby as legal representation for the defendant, saw a judge order the return of a lb.
Both off those cases preceded the codification and 4-oz. limits that took effect in March 1983.
Why don't the government "officials" devote the same amount of energy/money that they use busting greenhouses to cleaning up the drunken inebriates randomly passed out in the park and the confrontational ones that hassel me every time I try to walk my dog? I think alcohol should have a limit or ban. Don't get me wrong, I like a good beer every now and then, but you don't see me stumbling incoherently into the road way! And I am not pointing fingers to a certain race...I have seen caucasians and other races down town as well. If everyone smoked pot, they would spend their time appreciating nature and debating politics and religion rather than stabbing eachother and harrassing hard working locals! I say LEGALIZE IT!
north pole79, the State courts and attorneys involved never referenced, "It's just a plant."
Rather, they referenced the threshhold by which the State could legally intervene in a person's right of privacy within their home; that threshhold required that the State show a 'compelling interest.'
The State held hearings (more than once) involving expert witnesses from both sides, and in the end, the State decided that it lacked 'compelling interest' where possession for personal use in the homes opf adults was at issue. In fact, they didn't even establish an age of majority for cannabis until the 1983 codification, at which point they made that age 19.
The State courts have now upheld that ruling ~3 times.
Wow...and you're from North Pole?
~north_pole79~ I suppose it would take a looser to know one, right? And you're trying to compare apples to oranges pal. Marijuana IS a natural plant all by itself WITHOUT modification. Both cocaine and herion have to go through chemical processes to be manufactured.
There's your edumication for the day junior!
>>>""It will never be legalized.""<<
By which Ouija Board was that prediction made?
It's only been illegal federally now for 72 years, tho' achieved and propped up by shameless federal propaganda, and iitially via a 'tax act,' at that.
Right now, states and municipalities in the U.S. are voting on decriminalization, or have passed it. Seattle passed a 'lowest priority law' re. cannabis several years ago, & Massachusettes is either in the midst of, or has already passed, a decriminalization bill. Then there are numerous states that are still decriminalized for various aggregate weights of cannabis since the 70s. And Republican Aaaanold Schwatzenager (spelling?) has called for an open discussion of regulated legalization.
The unconstitutional recriminalization vote in Alaska in 1990 re. the Ravin Decision saw a ~46.5% support to keep Ravin intact. (constitutional rights aren't up for a simple majority vote, per the Noy Decision).
In 2004, Prop 2 had ~44.5% support in Alaska for all out legalization, including taxed and regulated commercial sales.
It ain't time for sunglasses quite yet, but in light of current and credible research, and the trends across the country, I'd say that the future for those suppoorting legalization is a bit brighter already.
That's not a 'felony threat' regarding a negligible (sometimes) misdemeanor behavior, is it?
Small minded folks need to go back from where they came from - HELL!
~TakeBackOurCity~ You can be arrested for making online threats such as this. A man just got arrested yesterday for making online threats towards judges.
Read story here: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,5289...
Don't worry, you cannot hide behind your moniker. Everthing is trackable throught your ISP. Have a gread day!
Bengal - the threat has to be directed at a specific person. However, TBOC is an idiot and needs to grow some brains.
Didnt take them long to come out with their death threats and name
calling . Thats the only argument they always have. Where do they
get off calling anyone losers.
You get'em nicekickz!
Dont worry officers, I will dispose of the weed for you. My phone number is ..... And you people are getting nuts in here. Did you all take your prozac this morning or no?
Anyone with half a brain wouldn't post something as stupid as "Death to all pot smokers".
After reading this thread one has to wonder why all ballot measures to legalize continue to fail. Does anyone bother to go vote? It's a very simple process.
Glad to incite your blatant immaturity, TCOB. Was my intent. See ya sucka!
I don't get it... Doesn't the State have a policy of supporting "Alaska Grown" products?
falloutlush-
"Jury nullification"
My first thought also. I think it's the only hope. But the people are pretty ignorant about it. And the gov/judicial system doesn't tell people the truth about it. So I don't have much hope in the people.
A little over a year ago I wrote a pretty good little "essay" here on it. Wish it wasn't so difficult to retrieve comments, 'cause I don't feel like writing it up again.
But that's the immediate answer.
Jury nullification ended a lot of bad laws through the years.
We, as jurors, are supposed to be the final arbiters of law. Please, people, learn about it.
Indeed, jury nullification pretty muched forced the hand for the repeal of Prohibition. Google 'jury nullification and prohibition.'
Indeed, Google jury nullification.
The gov lies about about our true rights and responsibilities as jurors.
Why not do something like this on the liquor problem we have instead? We could prosecute people who sell it commercially. Liquor kills more people but I guess the government take it as a population control. Hemp is considered a medical break through compared to other natural medicine plant cures. Plants are natural just like a tree, if I grew trees and smoke it would they prosecute me too? There has got to be more common sense judgement on this issue in the future.
The costs of the War on Drugs are certainly worse than the drugs. Every citizen can be accused of drug use and lose all their rights in an instant as far as law enforcement is concerned. The War on Drugs is no different than the Inquisiton with the same delusional mind set:
http://kristof.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090706/ab...
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/041720...
http://www.reason.com/news/show/126026.h...
http://www.reason.com/news/show/125538.h...
http://www.reason.com/news/show/33313.ht...
'If the sentence does not fit, you must aquit.' ;^>)
-or-
If the crime left no victim, don't create one.
------------------
Lots of people focus on the amount of money involved. The concept of capitalism, or a free enterprise market place, would indicate that this issue deserves a 'so what?'
If it weren't for the black market, (a direct product of market demand colliding with mis-guided morality-based prohibition), the value of the cannabis plant would be that of most other plants sought after by consumers; tobacco, parsley, cumin seed, etc.
Through short-sightedness and poor boundaries, folks create a situation in which plants and other inanimate objects attain obscene values, then clasp their hands to their faces, while exclaiming outrage at the values that they themselves have had a hand in creating by passing what are primarily/often unenforcable laws.
Simply amazing.
If profits are the issue here, and profits are inherently bad, then perhaps any and all successful CEOs and small business owners should seek protection, 'cause the anti-profit vigilantes are out to get 'em..
Run, successful business owners!! Run!! The anti-profit folks are out to get you!! Run!!
----
For those folks who criticized these fellows as contributing nothing to the community, ask yourselves this; did these folks buy food, eat at restaurants, buy building materials, fuel, clothing, etc., that they wouldn't have without their incomes?
That's cash redistributuion, folks. That's what makes an economy function. That's the difference between a restaurant, grocery store, automobile dealership, or lumber store staying in business, or going bankrupt.
Now you can look forward to your (tax/oil revenue) dollars paying $30-$45/hour for the enforcers, a bit less for the prison guards and probation/parole officers, a bit more for the prison contractors, a fair bit for the Judge, court clerks, attorneys, folks who make furniture and food for the prison system, etc. And ultimately, pay ~$40,000.00 to $65,000.00/year to keep some entrepreneurial gardeners and their laborers in prison..
Millions of cheeseburgers and bags of Doritos that were intended for Alaska's store shelves are wiping beads of sweat from their proverbial browes as I type this..
Congratulations! I (as well as the Doritos and burgers) feel safer already.
This should not stand. He was minding his own business growing some pot-no guns, no gangs, and keeping the pot money in-state. Most pot these days is getting brought in at a huge economic cost to Alaskans. We need this money going to in-state lights suppliers, fuel suppliers, logistics, etc. Its not a legitimate business, but it beats letting the business go to the gangs which have popped up all over the state. Let the Alaska tradition of self sufficiency continue! It is none of the state's business if this guy is growing copious amounts of pot. Mr. Larson, we support you, and we will contribute to your legal fund!
Those that keep bringing up opium and cocaine aren't very well educated. Opium is "made" from the poppy plant and Cocain is "made" from the coca plant. Without human's changing the plants then there wouldn't be those drugs. Hemp on the other hand is a naturally occuring herb that needs no human proccessing to turn it into anything. So it is natural and the others are not.
For what it's worth, here's my two cents on why weed will never be legalized:
I find it amazing that there has been so much talk lately of how much health care costs in this country. Prescription pharmacueticals cost an arm and a leg, and those companies rule the world fincially, alongside big oil. Imagine for a moment, if you will, what it would cost those drug comapanies if marijuana became legal. It alleviates the symptoms of glaucoma, chemotherapy, arthritis, mestruation, and a huge list of others. Who in their right mind is going to take a pill that costs 600 dollars a bottle, when you can smoke a doober that costs about 3 bucks and can do the job just as well. Can you imagine the hit pharmaceutical companies would take? Hundreds of billions. The medical industry as whole would take a huge hit, and lose their monopoly. You think the politicians whose pockets are getting greased by big medicine are going to push to legalize? If so, take another bong hit.
Neither man has any prior criminal history.
LEGALIZE IT
100% in agreement with joeslankas - money talks... and there just ain't enough money in pot to turn that tide. R&D for mary jane? oh so funny. Govt subsidy? Hardly. But we let the guberment tell us what is and isn't good for us.
Dirk has excellent insight on this subject.
Legalize it, tax it. Spend the "drug wars" money on the harmful drugs - or would that mean all the beer drinkers would get hammered?
Turn this case over to the Federal Courts.
Investigators seized 636 mature marijuana plants and 50 pounds of processed marijuana. The total weight of all the seized marijuana, if processed, is estimated to be 200 pounds.
well just for your information all of this marijauna will be back on the street just as soon as it is processed. There will be approx. 200lbs for sale at 400 per ounce that equals $1,280,000 for the goverment.
Honestly there are grow operations busted everyday were the police DO NOT TICKET THE GROWERS OR ARREST THEM. They take the plants and the equipment and recirculate the product. They often come to peoples grow houses in plain clothes with there badges in tow ask them to leave and they clean up taking everything worth anything, Lights and plants and expensive hydro systems all out the door and back on the streets in the hands of another drug dealer in a matter of weeks. That is probally why so many of Fairbanks' KNOWN COCAINE dealers are still gracing the television in your local prepay cell phone commercials and NOT GETTING ARRESTED EVER. Because the COPS are to busy with there grow house sting operations.
1. Yes, it should be legalized. It's our job as citizens to convince our legislators to change the laws (their job). Join and support NORML. Write to your representatives (letters on real paper carry the most impact).
2. LEOs are just enforcing existing laws (their job) and conforming to departmental policies. Once the legislators legalize it, LEOs will stop arresting people for it.
3. What these men were doing, good or bad, is currently illegal. They knew it going in, and made the conscious decision to become criminals, so they should take their lumps.
4. Don't feed the (foulmouthed) trolls.
hmmm my last comment must have been bad they didnt even let me post it hmmm
lol look its back
Doesn't it tell you something when the only argument the anti-marijuana crowd can come up with are things like pot smokers are losers, death to pot smokers, etc. So which crowd is the more brain dead ?
Please show up to your city council meetings and legislature with the same rants for legalization and you will be laughed out of the building.
Marijuana will hopefully never be legalized because it has the following deleterious health effects:
Acute (present during intoxication)
Impairs short-term memory
Impairs attention, judgment, and other cognitive functions
Impairs coordination and balance
Increases heart rate
Persistent (lasting longer than intoxication, but may not be permanent)
Impairs memory and learning skills
Long-term (cumulative, potentially permanent effects of chronic abuse)
Can lead to addiction
Increases risk of chronic cough, bronchitis, and emphysema
Increases risk of cancer of the head, neck, and lungs
Research clearly demonstrates that marijuana has the potential to cause problems in daily life or make a person’s existing problems worse. In one study, heavy marijuana abusers reported that the drug impaired several important measures of life achievement including physical and mental health, cognitive abilities, social life, and career status.1 Several studies associate workers’ marijuana smoking with increased absences, tardiness, accidents, workers’ compensation claims, and job turnover.
1 Gruber AJ, Pope HG, Hudson JI, Yurgelun-Todd D. Attributes of long-term heavy cannabis users: A case control study. Psychological Med 33(8):1415–1422, 2003.
THC acts upon specific sites in the brain, called cannabinoid receptors, kicking off a series of cellular reactions that ultimately lead to the “high” that users experience when they smoke marijuana. Some brain areas have many cannabinoid receptors; others have few or none. The highest density of cannabinoid receptors are found in parts of the brain that influence pleasure, memory, thoughts, concentration, sensory and time perception, and coordinated movement.1
Not surprisingly, marijuana intoxication can cause distorted perceptions, impaired coordination, difficulty in thinking and problem solving, and problems with learning and memory. Research has shown that marijuana’s adverse impact on learning and memory can last for days or weeks after the acute effects of the drug wear off.2 As a result, someone who smokes marijuana every day may be functioning at a suboptimal intellectual level all of the time.
1 Herkenham M, Lynn A, Little MD, et al. Cannabinoid receptor localization in the brain. Proc Natl Acad Sci, USA 87(5):1932–1936, 1990.
2 Pope HG, Gruber AJ, Hudson JI, Huestis MA, Yurgelun-Todd D. Neuropsychological performance in long-term cannabis users. Arch Gen Psychiatry 58(10):909–915, 2001.
Duh, that's why it is legal for medical use.
Marijuana may play a role in car accidents. In one study conducted in Memphis, TN, researchers found that, of 150 reckless drivers who were tested for drugs at the arrest scene, 33 percent tested positive for marijuana, and 12 percent tested positive for both marijuana and cocaine (1). Data have also shown that while smoking marijuana, people show the same lack of coordination on standard "drunk driver" tests as do people who have had too much to drink (2).
1 Brookoff, D.; Cook, C. S.; Williams, C.; and Mann, C. S. Testing reckless drivers for cocaine and marijuana. New England Journal of Medicine, 331:518-522, 1994.
2 Liguori, A.; Gatto, C. P.; and Robinson, J. H. Effects of marijuana on equilibrium. psychomotor performance, and simulated driving. Behavioral Pharmacology, 9:599-609, 1998.
'marijuana is a gateway drug, it leads to Cheetos and sweatpants' Rolling Stone, 2009
Time to smoke some weed and get back to work. This conversation is getting boring.
man, i went town and missed all the fun...AND got my comment removed!? what the hay? all i said was a was thinking of doris: she didn't even take offense! lol, i actually think she is probably right about this one:
alcohol is mind-altering, far more addictive, and encourages hostility in many people. like alcohol, mary jane shouldn't be used while driving, or on the job, but it's far less destructive.
legalize it at use the police rescources elsewhere.
"Christa - 6/25/2009, 9:04 a.m.
And I am not pointing fingers to a certain race...I have seen caucasians and other races down town as well."
what a cop out. the structure of that sentence does nothing BUT point fingers to "a certain race".
you might as well have said : "i don't want to say what i really think because then people will definitely know i'm a racist... so i'll pretend to not be a bigot and make my sentence an exercise in waffley deductive assumption vs. flat-out racist stereotypes."
closet racists somehow think that if they are weaselly and vague enough in their wording that somehow it is okay.
north_pole79
All that is true of alcohol, and it is legal. If it is going to remain legal, then marijuana should become legal too.
~And employers should have the right to fire inadequate employees who use either and/or try to use either on the job.
north pole79,
Yet after a thorough reveiw of the arguments and science, both pro and con, and on more than one occasion, the courts in Alaska ruled that the state lacked compelling interest sufficient to support enforcement of anti-cannabis laws on adults using, possessing, or growinng small amounts in the privacy of their homes.
Furthermore, there's considerable amounts of research that's withstood the scrutiny of the courts, and which minimizes or disproves many of the claims that you've posted.
The fact that some legislators and council members continue clinging the their need for political posturing associated with a failed war on plants, or to perpetuate the less-than-truthful rantings of the 'Reefer Madness' crowd, has nothing to do with well-established science surrounding this subject..
It merely proves how desperately we need a thorough house-cleaning where our legislators and assemblies are concerned.... And a better education for those who think they possess the authority to dictate the otherwise private choices and behaviors of their neighbors.
" that've withstood.." oops.
First pot plants are destroyed and now Michael Jackson is dead?! What's next?
Farrah Fawcett went too, Proud2BNFbx
Don't ask what happens after this......
@ north_pole79
This is getting surreal. The DEA, local and state law enforcement in California, in the so called "Green Triangle" of Northern California the Governor AND the court system all REALIZE that they have pissed away MILLIONS of tax payers money on the foolish and useless so called "war on (marijuana) drugs". Alaska has a chance to be progressive, humanitarian and rational. LEGALIZE IT! Lets stop wrecking lives, homes and funding useless, worthless laws left over from “The Demon weed” era of the 1930’s.
http://blog.norml.org/2009/06/23/the-law...
1) Cannabis and Driving: A Scientific and Rational Review: http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7459...
2)Cannabis, Mental Health and Context: The Case For Regulation:
http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=...
3)Recent Research on Medical Marijuana: http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=...
4)Cannabis Smoke and Cancer: Assessing the Risk
http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=...
...Or as Dirk calls it:
The war on (some) drugs...
Think about it.
We are either free men, or we are not. LEGALIZE IT!
Note to liberals, if you want to keep power forever, LEGALIZE IT NOW!
I doubt that I am the only conservative that would switch to your side.
Momzilla, I agree with you there.
I saw a poem once in the back of a High Times magazine, way back in my college days. It read:
When I die, bury me deep,
A pile of reefer at feet.
A pack of papers in my hand,
I'll roll my way to the promised land.
That always made me laugh. But everything's funny when you're toasted.
Northpole79, so what do you suggest people use when they want to party?
Man, I've got the munchies! Fixing to tear me up some pizza and continue laughing my ass off!
It should never be legalized it should remain illegal and there should be stronger fines and jail sentences.
@ Puppydog
suggest you get informed and reconsider your old school "kneejerk" reactionist comment.
unless you are one of those who's liveing depends on locking up your fellow citizens and profiting from the demonization and propagandization of the "war on (some) drugs" Which by all current CW has failed.
Well, Bengal, I'm not stoned, but I just chowed on a chicken caesar salad. Mmmmm.
------
puppydog, that approach, aside from failing miserably for decades, not only insults the concept of punishments fitting their crimes, but those of free enterprise, individual liberty, and that bastion of conservative ideology, 'property rights.'
------
joeslankas, from a three-day period in ~1978-1979, standing next to the highway in Tok Jct, hitch-hiking toward Fbks, from the end of a friend's driveway, with a six-pack of fairly expensive Michelob sitting on the top of my back-pack, and a sign saying 'Free Beer'
We ended up drinking the beer (my friends in Tok and I).
--------------
An unlucky bloak
Was stranded in Tok
And found to his dismay
There was no hope
He was out of dope
And he had no more money to pay
--------------
Alaskan limericks from the later 70s. ;^>)
@ puppydog..
Once there was a failed Austrian painter who in numerous street "soap box" meetings convinced the people of his adopted country (Germany) that the NSDP (Nazi) party would profit from his conservative reactionist socile programs. He allso was a great beliver in locking people up... a LOT of people....
Conflict of Interest and Collusion. That's about all you can say about the Political System we have. Accepting bribe money from the pharmaceutical, alcohol and plastics industries to deflect, stymie, or kill legislation that would legalize marijuana. Accepting bribe money to financially benefit the same oil and energy conglomerates pumping oil out of Alaska.
What's so difficult on reporting who you accepted campaign(bribe) money from and to keep from voting on any legislation financially benefitting the industries you accepted money from? To vote is to deliberately break the law isn't it?
Legalize it.
Picnic? THC is fat soluble. Place ground pot between the sauce and cheese on a pizza and you will get all the benefit available. None of the lung hazards of smoking and tastes great. FOR MEDICAL USE ONLY, if any one asks.
"no prior criminal history, wahhhh, no priors...."
1. He does have a criminal history, he just has not been caught.
2. Most child molesters have no prior history, should they be let go?
Wowwww whatta bummer!!
TAX IT! Why give billions to drug dealers that we eventually arrest, try in court and incarcerate?
Got a debt???
TAX IT!
Can I have his plane?
Should have hired a local
craigslist is spelled with a c and you are correct one should not trust an out of state person with such an important task.
Pat
north_pole79, you are a good company person, an idiot, but a good company person, I can tell.
N2AK - Comparing marijuana growers to child molesters is about as stupid as it gets. For one thing there's no victim, and for another thing, THERE'S NO VICTIM! Just like there's no victim when Fred Meyers sells beer to an adult who goes home and drinks it with his pizza. Incarcerating people for victimless "crimes" is breaking our system in more ways than just financially.
batman_ak - That was one long read of all those articles, but well worth it. Good postings. 420friendly - Good ones too. I think the vast majority of Americans are sick and tired of seeing their money wasted on incarcerating people for drugs. As for those drug cartels in Mexico, legalize drugs and rip their incentive right out from under them.
Legalization would lead to greater demand and use.
From 1984 to 1996, the Dutch liberalized the use of cannabis. Surveys reveal that lifetime prevalence of cannabis in Holland increased consistently and sharply. For the age group 18-20, the increase is from 15 percent in 1984 to 44 percent in 1996.
Never Mind: Alaska's Failed Legalization Experiment
In 1975, Alaska's Supreme Court held that under their State Constitution an adult could possess marijuana for personal consumption in the home.
The court's ruling became a green light for marijuana use. A 1988 University of Alaska survey showed that the state's teenagers used marijuana at more than twice the national average for their age group. The report also showed a frequency of marijuana use that suggested it wasn't experimental, but a well incorporated practice for teens.
Fed up with this dangerous experiment, Alaska's residents voted in 1990 to recriminalize possession of marijuana. But 15 years of legalization left its mark-increased drug use by a generation of our youth.
np79, If you read Bernie Segal's study (which you've quoted out of context), he also draws comparisons with other northern climates, where teen use of cannabis is and alcohol, as well as other drugs, are also higher.
Likewise, while cannabis use in Alaska occurred at notably higher rates than many other places in the U.S. for these age groups, so was the use of other drugs which (were/are) not decriminalized, leaving Mr. Segal to consider that the laws had little impact on rates of adolescent use, and that other factors were involved.
Following the 1990 vote, the feds' reported criminal arrests in Alaska rose significantly, as well. Coincidence?
Meanwhile, adolescents in the Netherlands use cannabis products at ~half the average rate of adolescents in the U.S., where the penalties are much more severe.
I also seriously doubt the alleged percentage of adults using cannabis products in Holland. I've travelled extensively throughout Holland, have friends there, and have not found this representative sample to be even -remotely- close to what is portrayed in your post..
For those adults who do choose cannabis products as their primary recreational vice, they've chosen a safer, less debilitating vice with which to achieve their sought after state of relaxation.
In my years in mental health practice, I never had a person present with a primary issue of cannabis use. There were one or two bi-polar persons who'd been self-medicating with cannabis, and who'd gotten in trouble at the work place for their unofficial medical use on the job.
In those same years, I saw numerous persons who were literally drinking themselves to death, some who had failing organs, home health care who bathed them after they'd lay in their own excrement, blood, organic brain damage or alcohol induced dimentia, etc.
By the way, np79, the Dutch policy change of decriminalization, and tolerance of cannabis products, 'cannabis coffee shops,' etc., was in 1975, not 1984. It was entitled 'The Doctrine of Tolerance.' It occurred the same year as the 1975 Ravin Decision.
>>>""Fed up with this dangerous experiment, Alaska's residents voted in 1990 to recriminalize possession of marijuana..""<<<
No, hood-winked by Bill Bennett's shameless violations of the Hatch Act, as a high-ranking Republican appointee, as 'Drug Czar,' the public erroneously bought into a well-publicized media campaign declaring that cannabis was a 'Gateway Drug'; an aassertion that the Institute of Medicine found no credible evidence of in their study, entitled 'Marijuana and Medicine,' released March of 1999 (which I happen to have a hard-copy of here).
>>>""(which you've quoted out of context),""<<<
Should've read, "(which you've referenced out of context),"
Lastly, you might want to peruse the extensive 2-year study by Pierre Claud Nolin's group from the Canadian Parliament, the conclusion of which comprises ~600+ pages, which, after thorough review vast amounts of research, concluded that cannabis use, in and of itself, posed little hazzard on the highways, and should be sold commercially, taxed, and regulated, to anyone over the age of 16.
Lastly, you might want to peruse the extensive 2-year study by Pierre Claud Nolin's group from the Canadian Parliament, the conclusion of which comprises ~600+ pages, which, after a thorough review of vast amounts of research, concluded that cannabis use, in and of itself, posed little hazzard on the highways, and should be sold commercially, taxed, and regulated, to anyone over the age of 16.
Dirk: have you read these?
Herkenham M, Lynn A, Little MD, et al. Cannabinoid receptor localization in the brain. Proc Natl Acad Sci, USA 87(5):1932–1936, 1990.
Pope HG, Gruber AJ, Hudson JI, Huestis MA, Yurgelun-Todd D. Neuropsychological performance in long-term cannabis users. Arch Gen Psychiatry 58(10):909–915, 2001.
Rodríguez de Fonseca F, Carrera MRA, Navarro M, Koob GF, Weiss F. Activation of corticotropin-releasing factor in the limbic system during cannabinoid withdrawal. Science 276(5321):2050–2054, 1997.
Diana M, Melis M, Muntoni AL, Gessa GL. Mesolimbic dopaminergic decline after cannabinoid withdrawal. Proc Natl Acad Sci, USA 95(17):10269–10273, 1998.
Budney AJ, Vandrey RG, Hughes JR, Thostenson JD, Bursac Z. Comparison of cannabis and tobacco withdrawal: Severity and contribution to relapse. J Subst Abuse Treat, e-publication ahead of print, March 12, 2008.
Moore TH, Zammit S, Lingford-Hughes A, et al. Cannabis use and risk of psychotic or affective mental health outcomes: A systematic review. Lancet 370 (9584):319–328, 2007.
Mittleman MA, Lewis RA, Maclure M, Sherwood JB, Muller JE. Triggering myocardial infarction by marijuana. Circulation 103(23):2805–2809, 2001.
Tashkin DP. Smoked marijuana as a cause of lung injury. Monaldi Arch Chest Dis 63(2):92–100, 2005.
Hashibe M, Morgenstern H, Cui Y, et al. Marijuana use and the risk of lung and upper aerodigestive tract cancers: Results of a population-based case-control study. Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev 15(10):1829–1834, 2006.
Polen MR, Sidney S, Tekawa IS, Sadler M, Friedman GD. Health care use by frequent marijuana smokers who do not smoke tobacco. West J Med 158(6):596–601, 1993.
Gruber AJ, Pope HG, Hudson JI, Yurgelun-Todd D. Attributes of long-term heavy cannabis users: A case control study. Psychological Med 33(8):1415–1422, 2003.
Yes, some of them.
I can tell you what I did the other day, re. Tashkin; he published the results from an effort to reach a final conclusion re. cancer and cannabis use (via smoked inhalation) several years ago, and after having spent years being quoted out of context by ONDCP and the DEA, concluded that chronic, moderate and infrequent users of cannabis had not greater risk of RESPIRATORY cancers (mouth, throat, esophageal, or lung cancers.
Yes, there were pre-cancerous lesions, yes, there was bronchitis, etc., but there was no more significant rate of cancer for those three different groups than there was for non-users/non-smokers.
Again, I previously listed (in another thread here, & addressing you) other thoughts re. those outcomes that Tashkin and others had contemplated.
Fairly informative for the average non-researcher is a book co-authored by Lynn Zimmer, PhD and Dr. John Morgan, M.D., pharmacologist and former professor of pharmacology at CUNY, entitled 'Marijuana Myths, Marijuana Facts.' Both authors were regarded as expert witnesses in their areas of work.
There's also a variety of fairly recent work by a behavioral scientist, Mitch Earlywine.
Re. the correlation of psychosis and cannabis use, and Moore's piece in Lancet, the primary researchers in this particular issue have -clearly- stated that (paraphrasing) while many persons with mental illnesses may self-medicate, there is no conclusive evidence of a 'causal relationship' between psychosis and cannabis use; a statement supported by the testimony of the late Dr. John Morgan, as well as Dr. Lester Grinspoon.
Regarding the studies concerning neuro-psychology in cannnabis users, in or ~1999, researchers at Johns-Hopkins released another substantial study that had spanned over a decade, involving well over a thousand participants, with participants ranging in age from 18 to their mid-60s, segregated into groups including male and female, both users and non-users, with users being further segregated into groups of occasional users, moderate users and chronic users of cannabis, and tracking 'decline in cognitive functioning.' (I have the cite in my list of materials on my hard-drive, tho' my older computer is shut down and I have most copies on a separate stand-alone hard-drive. I can access it with a bit of effort if you wish to see it. I also have the original abstract and hard-copy of the study in my hard-copy archives in the basement).
(cont'd)
(cont'd)
They concluded that there was no scientifically/statisitcally significant (P= > +/-.05%) difference in rates of decline of cognitive functioning between the groups, though they noted, anecdotally, that all three groups of the female users maintained -slightly- greater cognitive ability than the non-users.
The process of accepting research as evidence in the courts relies on the credibility of the research, in terms of its structure, methodology, conclusions, etc.
For example, the study that claimed that primates showed the same degree of addiction to cannabis as they did to heroin or cocaine, failed to fully reveal that the primates used in the testing had previosly been used in a similarly structured study that had the same buttons in the cages 'vending' cocaine.
'Less than credible' is what any critical peer would've concluded.
We can post studies all day long, and I can show where a significant number of them have been refuted as not credible, and rejected from court proceedings concerning this issue.
Suffice it to say that Federal Judge Francis Young concluded long ago that cannabis was safer than aspirin. The IoM/NIH concluded that cannabis shows promise in re. to medical use, despite concerns about inhalation of smoke, and the often over-stated potential for negative consequences. The State Supreme court is not a haven for Cheech and Chong types, and after reviewing the science, has more or less concluded much as the Canadian Parliament members who researched this issue did; it isn't the 'killer demon weed' that nearly-unlimited federal dollars have made it out to be.
I'd add that at the time of the inception of the criminalizing of what had been a fmaily farm crop, control of migrant labor, especially blacks and Hispanics, was a goal of many in power. The inhernet racism in some of the testimony to Congress is obvious, aside from the lacking of scientific basis. Nothingshiort of appalling.
This 'war on plants' represents one of the most non-productive and destructive, poorly-cloaked culture wars, masked behind cheesey propaganda presented as science, in the history of this nation. It's time to find a new boogey man, forgive the draft-resisters and hippies from the 'Nam era,, and get on with our lives.
oh I think I get where your coming from... north_pole79, you remind me of when a Dr. hands you paxil samples, this is what you..... NEED! These are a few side effects, they'll go away in in several weeks...., oh and these injuries from using this "LEGAL DRUG"! HELLO !!!! Weed has been the only help w/out all that bodily destruction!Socially not accepted by pain clinics that seem to have been put in control of peoples minds, not there Dr., just the drug dealer.... then comes there drugs, and drug testing!!! I want the person who diagnosis's me... to also be the one who treats me!To be your own best medical advocate is key. The war on drugs is $$$$ wasted. Just say "NO" was an inexpensive reality, it all comes down to that!Thank-you Nancy Regan! Now I shall have an attitude adjustment, to get on w/my day!
By the way, it's side effects are nothing compared to those of the "Legal Drugs" I know they exist!I want to enjoy life.Not be a flippin zombie!
((( p e a c e )))
Dirk:
Send me a link to this research you're talking about particularly the John Hopkins article. And it better me published in a scientific article. Send a link.
Will the 'Oxford Journals, American Journal of Epidemiology' suffice? ;^>)
http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/conten...
lets see 200 lbs X 4000??? With 600 plants every 8 weeks. X 200 growers HMMMM with a state tax,,well the words budget deficit would leave our language pretty damn quick. What is the town in California that is run on taxed weed???? Cant remember?.The USA once had it legal and handed out permits to grow it here..and hemp was a major part of our society. we should go back to the old Alaska,,oil and weed. with that and blood sweat and tears is what built this state,oh crap,,and DUCT TAPE
Published in the U.S. in a DOT NTSB cover, and paid for, in part, by your tax dollars, via a grant. Ask the DOT how they feel about handing out -this- obviously-contradictory-to-the-DEA's-and-ONDCP's-hype-and-tripe 'public document.' ;^>)
http://casr.adelaide.edu.au/T95/paper/s1...
One of the pay-to-purchase links to the IoM's 'Marijuana and Medicine' report.
http://www.iom.edu/?id=12668
if you legalize weed and then tax it to the max, you will not eliminate illegal activity. why do you think that moonshine whiskey is so popular in certain parts of the country? it ain't, necessarily, because its a better product.
Dirk: If you've read any of my posts I've never said that marijuana adversly effects long-term cognitive abilities.
There is evidence for all this (keep in mind this is only what science has discovered so far):
Acute (present during intoxication)
Impairs short-term memory
Impairs attention, judgment, and other cognitive functions
Impairs coordination and balance
Increases heart rate
Persistent (lasting longer than intoxication, but may not be permanent)
Impairs memory and learning skills
Long-term (cumulative, potentially permanent effects of chronic abuse)
Can lead to addiction
Increases risk of chronic cough, bronchitis, and emphysema
Increases risk of cancer of the head, neck, and lungs
Doris,
I wonder if I can get away with calling you.....
ahhh, I'll save it.
YOU ARE THE VICTIM!!!!
You think he paid taxes on his dope?
You think that the economy might be a bit brighter if retards would put their money into LEGAL business instead of him?
Explain that one away.
Oh, you answer is, make it legal I remember.
np79
>>""Acute (present during intoxication)
Impairs short-term memory
Impairs attention, judgment, and other cognitive functions
Impairs coordination and balance
Increases heart rate""<<
ALL of these vary from user to user.
-------------------
>>>""Persistent (lasting longer than intoxication, but may not be permanent)
Impairs memory and learning skills""<<<
Not concluded or substantiated to any significant degree at all..
-------------------
>>>""Long-term (cumulative, potentially permanent effects of chronic abuse)
Can lead to addiction
Increases risk of chronic cough, bronchitis, and emphysema
Increases risk of cancer of the head, neck, and lungs""<<<
Approximately 1 in 10 regular users of cannabis -can- find themselves experiencing a -psychological addition-. The 1999 Merck Manual regards that risk as substantially lower; rare even.
Lok at the rates of psychological addictions to video games, various foods, etc. I'm not impressed by psychologuical addictions. The wealthy world, mostly the west, engages in various psychological addictions about as often as they change their under-shorts.
Chronic cough, bronchitis, and emphysema are more commonly found in those persons who are regular users, and even then, not all. I'd wager heavily that you'll find more contamination in those persons who burn wood and coal as primary heat sources, than you will in the cases of those who are moderate (or less frequent) users of cannabis.
The assertions re. cancer are also hardly conclusively substantiated, and until the hypothesis of a carcinogen-suppressing enzyme or other attribute are laid to rest, or the control groups and experimental groups are better sorted out and defined, the many remaining questions associated with these assertions will likely remain unanswered.
----------
Research the (notable) increase in the frequency of learning disabilities in children who consume smoked, cured meats; sausages, bacon, etc. Nitrites/nitrates are listed as directly related to these issues. Yet I ate enough -awesome- sausages as a child to kill a horse. I'm paying for it in other ways now, but learning disabilities weren't a part of it.
As to many of the symptoms listed above, I can recreate those same symptoms, and more, by simply crouching and intentionally breathing rapidly, in and out, then standing up quickly. Yet that action, practiced by many, especially children, won't result in anyone going to prison, unless they act negligently while doing so, and harm another..
The real issues here are biases and money; both of which are pathetic reasons to continue a losing, intrusive, morally bankrupt war on our own people.
Nobody says there aren't side affects from using pot. After all many of the side affects are why people smoke it in the first place. That's why they call it getting high the same reason drinkers have their alcohol to unwind after work. Is this not a free country why shouldn't adults be given the freedom of choice. No matter how much research you do alcohol and smoking are way more harmful than pot.
FREEDOM
Legalize it alraeay, it's long past due. Besides, people are going to do what people want to do. So, either legalize and tax it, or continue to spend millions of tax payers money prosecuting and incarcerating people who consume a natural plant.
So if it is legalized how much tax is the government gonna collect on a forty dollar bag? How many people will still buy it on the d-low cause they don't want to pay fifty bucks with taxes for the same forty dollar bag that is not taxed? I will ask my unemployed pothead friend if he will buy the fifty dollar taxed bag or still get the forty dollar bag.
Tony08, have you really seen a $40 bag since the late 70's????
the only reason moonshine is still around is because they use it for fuel in farm equipment and vehicles. Yes mostly it is consumed,,but thats preference,,,,yeah go to Safeway and buy Alaskan salmon smoked strips....but who eats that crap??? yuck...Moonshine was around because of prohbition...
The "state" can get away with taxing alcohol because it is manufactured and distributed.
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I can't see how the state can tax something grown at home. For the same reason they can't tax home brew.
Thus, I don't find the "tax it" argument to be a valid reason for legalizing it.
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Is there some credible medial studies comparing the number of fatal accidents for pot smokers: vs drinkers vs cell phones used by drivers.
How many people overdose smoking (illegal)pot? zero
How many people overdose on (legal) prescription drugs? Michael Jackson and many, many others.
You could tax home growing maybe requiring a small fee like a business license or a growing permit. But the real taxation would come from taxing the large commercial growers. You could also tax it at the point of sale like cigarettes. Not everyone will want to grow their own when they can buy good product at the local point of sale.
nmg60 yes i have. I have also seen a five and ten dollar bag you haven't? I can just a joint for a few bucks if i smoked it.
>>>""I can't see how the state can tax something grown at home""<<<
For the same exact reasons that persons could be legally brewing beer at home for ~$2.00 to ~$3.00 per six-pack, often equivalent to the quality that they pay Freddy's ~$8.00 to ~$12.00/six-pack for, but don't..
Time, skill, motivation, instant gratification, laziness, and tens of other adjectives or factors that inhibit many America from saving their own lives and money through self-sufficiency..
Keep it absolutely illegal to sell it or buy it. But that is all. Make it what amounts to be the only thing in our society exempt from commercialization. Just let it be. Hold it up as an example of our ability to think outside of money, money, money. No taxes. Let people do whatever the heck they want with it except put a price tag on it. Free only. Keep our American work ethic strong and grow your own and give it away just like Dad's smoked salmon treats. Just let it be.
Most of us have done it.
It was like "and we were" -pause- "Hey man,what was I saying?"
and
"What did you say your name is?" Reply: "Uh,Uh,hey let's change the subject man"
I don't care if anybody smokes dope, but hey, everybody here that knows about it knows there are some trade offs. For most people, not all, good vs bad short term memory, laziness vs productivity.
I think if you want to do it go ahead but you know the potential problems which are a lot less than Michael Jackson's Diluadid and on and on other prescription drugs and 2-3 1.5 liters of whiskey per day.
damm , there goes my frequent buyer bonus..
Heck the gold biusness must be running slow for them to have to start growing pot. Maybe they should have started up a resturant and had a speical on brownies.
Cigarettes kill people, marijuana does not.
So why is marijuana illegal for anybody to so much as possess
and cigarettes LEGAL to buy at a younger age than alcohol?
Gun rights-bum rights, lets get stoned (realize and LEGALIZE!).
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