No go on Dogs Bar liquor license transfer
Published Friday, October 9, 2009
Digg
delicious
Facebook
Mixx
Reddit
Stumble It!FAIRBANKS — Two weeks after declining to support Troy Poage’s plan to transfer his liquor license to open a coffee bar/pizzeria on Chena Hot Springs Road the Borough Assembly formally opposed the move.
The license transfer request now goes before the state Alcoholic Beverage Control Board.
Area residents turned out Thursday night to voice their opposition to having a business selling alcohol in what they described as an agricultural/residential area.
Kathy Gettinger said the neighborhood opposition is not directed toward a person but the possibilities of what could happen, she said referring to alcohol-impaired drivers.
Poage voiced his frustration, saying he had followed all the rules, yet is being persecuted.
The resolution protesting the relocation and transfer of the Dogs Bar liquor license passed 6-3 and was sponsored by assembly member Nadine Winters.
Assembly members Tim Beck, Joseph Blanchard and Kelly Brown dissented.
Beck said he was having difficulty making a judgment on the issues. “I think we have created a resolution of non-support for this particular businessman, and it could be applied equitably to every bar in the borough.
“I don’t approve of drinking and driving,” he said. “I can’t support this resolution. I just think we are not being fair.”
Neighborhood rezoning
Community members living in an area west of Ballaine Road, east of Sheep Creek, north and south of Goldstream Creek, and Yankovich Road received high praise from assembly members for taking action and working with the borough to rezone their neighborhoods.
Mary Lou Guthrie spoke for those involved in the process, saying she had never seen a zoning map before becoming involved and learned a lot throughout the several-year process.
“The zoning map in our area was so cockeyed,” she said. “It was as diverse as the population.”
Assembly members listened carefully as Christina Peterson testified that she was unhappy with her rezone from general use to residential/agricultural-20 acres, saying she preferred the RA10 rating.
After learning more about the rezoning from borough planners and the legalities of changing Peterson’s zoning, they amended the plan in her favor.
Assembly member Guy Sattley praised the neighborhood’s rezoning initiative, saying, “This is exactly the way rezoning should be, not crammed down from the top.”
Community Discussion
Newsminer.com doesn't necessarily condone the comments here, nor does it review every post. Read our full user's agreement.
And finally, before the Assembly meeting concluded, they voted to reconsider the "Bag Tax".
Then they voted the tax down 8 to 1.
Only Nadine Winters supported the tax.
It would have been the only coffee bar/pizzeria in the borough where you could order a Margarita, a scotch, or a tequila. And the strippers and cage fights would have certainly livened the place up!
The Gettingers are some of the finest people in our community. It was entirely appropriate for the assembly to listen to their testimony.
The consequence of the assembly passing this resolution is that they literally will be saving lives.
Kudos.
I do understand the concerns from the folks that live around there, but this is kinda looking like a campaign against Mr. Poage.
It could feel that way, Yukonjohn, but it's not. Or, it is, but only in the sense that you hold people accountable for their previous actions. Dogs Bar was a nightmare for the neighborhood. If Troy Poage were able to trade his full liquor license in for a beer and wine license, he might get a different response from the Assembly.
“Dogs Bar was a nightmare for the neighborhood.”
Nightmare? I listen to testimony years ago on this place, I believe it was transfer it to Mr. Poage. I noted no one said they confronted the owner of the establishment, no one called the police. Even though people gave testimony of flagrant violations of the law, no police were called. It sounded like the same type of complaints this time, so they were against the transfer to a new person.
I get the feeling if Mr. Poage traded his license for a beer and wine and only allowed one sip from a shot glass. They would still have complained, speaking on the former location of Dogs bar. Maybe the folks at the new location were just scared silly by the media attention.
this guy wanted to do something good for his communtiy, open a pizza pub and coffee house. seriously whats wrong with that. a bunch of people were worried about turning in to traffic at rush hour ON CHENA HOTS SPRINGS ROAD! I drive the road often and nery rarely do i ever see more than a few cars at a time. All he wants to do is run an establishment, He's researched sites, found this to be the best possible place and still people get angry. and seriously how many other bars are close to residential areas, red fox-across the street from a large subdivision, barracudas/kodiak jacks-on one of the busiest intersections of the busiest road in town. what beacesu its inside city limits it doesn't have to be ten miles away form a school and residential areas. just give the guy a chance. let him have his bar more people drink responsibly than drink and drive, and someone goin to a pizza place to get drunk really has their priorities out of line anyway
ptls, you do not have a clue on what you are talking about. Let him build it near your house!!! Yukon, we are not attacking the person, those of us that live in the area do not want this type of business in our neighborhood. My family and I want to thank the assembly for finally showing some common sense.
How about the Churches out there,don't they serve wine?
I was originally against the Dogs. It was a dive. But being that far out in the country, it posed little threat to anyone. It's basically an Ivory Jacks, or Skinny Dicks at that point. And god knows we could use a good pizza joint in this town.
Sorry it got shot down.
If you're not part of the "program" up here, you ain't opening a business. And that's that!
Tim Beck voted against the resolution, saying it's a case of NIMBY - Not in My Back Yard. What Mr. Beck doesn't get is that it's perfectly reasonable not to want drunks knocking on you door at 3:00 A.M., Your car windows broken out by beer bottles, random shots fired, and drunken brawls. No resident would want a bar like Mr. Poage ran anywhere near their back yard, anywhere near their neighborhood, or anywhere near their town.
Maybe Mr. Beck has room on his property to move the floorless roofless cabin. Then everybody would be happy.
Wow! The assembly rules by Mob Rule!!!!! That should have been the headline in todays paper.
Intimidated and cowardly, all but three of them voted 100% emotion and 0% Brains to go against a man who is trying to open what is, under the LAW, a legitimate business. That was met by approval by the MOB, as well as many who have already posted here this morning. Most of the arguments that were used against this poor guy (Other than the Character Assination) that shot the liquor license transfer down could be applien to many if not all such establishments in the Fairbank area at one time or another.
Oh, did I mention that the assembly first indicated to the applicant that they would rewrite the ordinance with conditions that would make it OK, then after extracting several consessins from the applicant, they decided to run scared, and postponing it again, they cut and ran last night on the third try.
Ignore regulations and common sense - that's typical of the very people who have proudly bragged in the FDN-M that "We are elected to make the hard decisions"!
I wonder who scared them into bagging the bag tax ??
And now, without an overwhelming vote on taking over air quality, the assembly will still have to make a decision - intelligent and reasoned, or otherwise - - I can hardly wait !
Yes, I'm disgusted, and thoroughly ashamed of many of the currect members of the assembly for their cowardly behavior.
It is a shame that this man is not able to use his liquor license. Yet, I live in the neighborhood that would be put in harms way if this was to have passed. Bennett Road would probably be the worse affected area since many people use it as a shortcut to Fox. I really appreciate all those drunk drivers throwing their beer cans on my property. Selling the aluminum really adds to our income. This is what happens without having a bar just down the road.
Oh, and that chicken someone hit and didn't have the courtesy to come and let me know! What if it had been one of the twins that ran up the driveway before I could catch them???? Or when one of the older children want to check the mailbox for me without letting me know first?? The speed limit is 30 mph but for some reason some people think it is more like 40+.
It is not just CHSR that would have been affected. It would affect all the residential areas around.
I still think the best way to stop drunk driving from bar goers would be to locate them in areas that did not have parking areas for them. I know in order to get to Cheers in Boston you have to walk or take a taxi. Hmmm...that's an idea.
Heidi--
Uhhhhh...sorry about your chicken.
You folks out there are lucky that they finally listened to those that could be adversely affected by this change in your community. Not so many years ago the planning commission permanently changed my area and my quiet enjoyment of my property. They couldn't do enough for the person wanting to make the change, despite the fact that their decision was wrong and harmful to my property, and completely against the current zoning. They didn't have to live there, so made a decision that I'll never be able to get changed. Once you allow an adverse change to happen, you can't get rid of it!
So when will these same assembly members start going after all the other bars in places which need drivers instead of pedestrian customers? Let's see, we could start with all three places in Fox, the Pump House, the Blue Loon, The Vallata, Ivory Jacks, Pikes, and I could go on.
So, assembly members, when these other places come up for license renewal will they be forced to play by the same rules or was this just meant to stop Troy?
There is a reason the Assembly gets to weigh in with the Alcohol Board and that is to express the voice and will of the community.If you listen to Assembly meetings, there are liquor transfers and licenses that come up all the time. Rarely does anyone come to oppose them, they generally just sail through. This one was different--the wrong project for the wrong place. Just because they could pass it, does not mean they should. Interestingly Tammie Wilson voted no despite her absolutist language on property rights on her website--so either she's not such an absolutist or it was too close to her property on Esro Rd
Glad the assembly voted this way -
Dog's was unacceptable - and there is NO evidence this would have been any better....
Pizza/Coffee house...fine - - but IMO this fella has lost his privilege to serve alcohol in OUR community
To OldasDirt and all who think this "businessman" needs a place for his bar: Please provide your address and I will search property records nearby to help him find a location.
If in fact Troy is following the law to the 'T' on this, and it is his right as a tax payer, business license holder and citizen, then I hope he sues for discrimination and wins. The "Good 'ol boys" club needs their treehouse shaken....
Good thing he cant open the bar. I'd hate to see drunk drivers on the roads. *looks at police report* oh wait...
Good decision
akguy - darn straight!
I have no problem with a business being opened at that location. If he wants to serve pizza, have at it - there is nothing stopping him! But that is not what he wants; he wants a bar or nothing and he makes that intent abundantly clear.
Anyone who clings to the argument "but it's legal!" despite the moral objections of others affected has no argument at all. Frankly, I don't care who the owner is, it is the intent in question. This community certainly does not need a south Cushman, but, since we already have one, lets keep it at that, shall we?
It was a good chicken.
Amen.
Taters- wasn't it at Ivory Jacks where Eugene Bottcher got drunk before running over 13 year old Saul Stutz and then fleeing as the child bled to death in front of his home?
http://newsminer.com/news/2009/jan/31/se...
This community is sick and tired of drunk drivers who kill and injure innocent people. Those who are paying attention to the facts understand that injecting a bar into this neighborhood was a spectacularly bad idea. The Assembly heard OVERWHELMING, and compelling testimony against having a bar owned by Poage on Chena Hot Springs road.
The assembly listened. Common sense prevailed. Lives will be saved.
Again, kudos to those on the assembly who brought about this rational outcome- to those who LISTENED to the public testimony and followed Alaska law allowing a elected body to protest a liquor license transfer.
You can't call it a "neighborhood" .there's maybe 1/2 dozen run down dwellings and a business or 2 on that road by Dog's Bar.
It would be nice to have a place, to replace the old Bull's Eye, which was popular for snow machiners to stop and have a hot meal and a beer.
Kudos to the assembly members to can count! Higher than the #1.
---
Has anyone noticed .. the vast majority of property owners have made an effort to main the scenic rural Alaska "flavor" of the area along the road (original vegetation)?
(Compare CHSR with the Rich between Fairbanks and N. Pole.)
"You can't call it a "neighborhood" .there's maybe 1/2 dozen run down dwellings and a business or 2 on that road by Dog's Bar."
BS. There are hundreds and hundreds of families that live in that "neighborhood," but you wouldn't know it because most of us are quiet and choose to not build our houses touching one another or to chop down every tree within sight. Obviously, you don't live in the area.
PAF,
My point exactly. If it was the traffic or the drunks making a mess of a neighborhood then why not hold the other bars and restaurants to the same standard? Any "neighbor" who testified against Troy lives farther away from his proposed bar (aka pizza joint) than the nearest neighbors of the other bars I mentioned.
I too am against drinking and driving and in fact, would not have a problem if ALL drinking and driving was outlawed. Can you see all the restaurant and bar owners and liquor distributors jumping on that wagon with me?
By the way, I went to Dogs Bar once and that was enough. And that new place he had in mind, it's highest and best use was probably to grow weeds.
NativeSon ... the proposed establishment was a coffee bar/pizza parlor not a stripper bar. Drunk patrons knocking on doors along Chena HS Rd at 3:00 am would NOT have been an problem. Beck is right... this is a pure case of NIMBY.
I am also against drinking and driving but an alcoholic will find it from another place and drive home or to a party. I am not a fan of Dogs Bar but I think he should be treated fairly. I also think we have enough crazy drivers on CHSR.
The bar/pizza parlor story was in my opinion a sham. He is transferring a full hard liquor license and doesn't even have the correct restaurant license that he would need to open a pizza parlor. Read the ABC regulations for yourself.
As for the strippers, he had them at his previous location, as well as cage fights that drew crowds of idiots.
Samm- this is a case of the Assembly following the law. Those on the assembly who knew the law and LISTENED to the overwhelming testimony in opposition to this bar voted accordingly (that included both Tammie Wilson AND Luke Hopkins.) It is reassuring that both mayoral candidates understand the law.
Both Title 4 and Title 29 authorize regulation of alcohol.
AS 04.11.480. Protest.
(a) A local governing body may protest the issuance, renewal, relocation, or transfer to another person of a license by sending the board and the applicant a protest and the reasons for the protest within 60 days of receipt from the board of notice of filing of the application.
Native son - Don't try to make me out the bad guy, others have tried and failed. And my area isn't zoned properly, and God knows the Assembly would not change that to accomodate him here.
The issue is the license being transfered, BY A NEW OWNER, which is what nearly everyone seems to choose to ignore. It doesn't matter what happened at the Old Dogs bar - NEW OWNER - NEW BUSINESS - Man trying to make a living - provide a service. I fail to see what is so hard for some people to understand. He's not on the dole like so many people are - he's not laying around claiming society owes him a living - he's trying to make good with a business opportunity.
I wrote this as slowly as I could so maybe some of you rock throwers can read and understand it and put down your rocks, or better yet, send them to all but three on the assembly, as they seem to have used up most of theirs!
One thing I think it's fair to point out in reference to cage fights, is that there are two local promoters that put those on. They guy who puts them on at the Carlson Center has a clean show, good fights, classy ring girls, nice door prizes, and sells a LOT of tickets. He has a doctor ringside, and insures his fighters.
The other joker, that used to put them on at the Dogs, is a dips#!t. And that's really badmouthing dips#!ts. He sold enough tickets to fill the backroom at the Dogs and Goldrush, constantly had lame fights (usually less than you could count on one hand), had crackeads and GI's fighting in the stands, had ring girls that looked and acted like hookers, and ripped off every fighter that ever fought for him. His production "company" went the way of the dodo, because he didn't make squat, and couldn't pay the mortgage on his cage.
The Dogs really could pick em, eh?
OldasDirt: You're wrong as usual. Both brothers were involved at Dog's Bar and there was no testimony that that would change.
Crack dealers provide a service too. If I was you, I wouldn't be trying to make the "he's only trying to provide a service" argument.
What they had cagefights and strippers? Damb I missed it.
Put_Alaska_First ... the key word in that law is "may." There is NO requirement for them to protest the liquor license transfer.
The fact remains that the type of business that Poage is proposing to open bears no resemblance to the one that was closed. It is not logical or ethical to presume that he would tell the Assembly and ABC one story to get the approval and then reopen a rowdy strip joint. Since when is it ok to punish somebody because you presume him to be lying and assume he intends on doing something other than he says? There are means for the Government to punish him after the fact if he lied. Presumption of guilt without due process is fundamentally unconstitutional. I admit that the Constitution has no application here, but the principle is the same.
I might add, a pizza parlor without beer is doomed. Even Pizza Hut has beer. Doesn't the Assembly have a responsibility to encourage business success?
We have three bars within 2-3 miles of my house, Badger Den, Circle M and the 49er, and he is more than welcome to come out here. This is a ridiculous arguement. One can tell it is proposed by non-drinkers that would protest drinking at any cost. I have a co-worker that lives right off the street that the OLD Dog's Bar was located. He says that he saw no problem with it at all. He did not patronize it, but he saw no problem with it. They should have left "well enough alone".
Perfectly good building out here in Salcha that met the same fate,the old Boondox Bar, burnt down, rebuilt and unopened. The church to bar balance is like three to one out here.I'm not an alcohol advocate, but it would have been nice to have a gathering place in our little community. So I'm guessing that is two licenses the Borough has rooted out in the community, 2 down and how many to go? What are those licenses worth? I have heard like $150,000.00 a piece. Think of the lost revenue in taxes.
Native son
First I feels that neighbors don’t want to have something move into their neighborhood, they have the power to stop it.
BUT
If you move next to a bar or a bar is in the vicinity, you shouldn’t be outraged when you have alcohol related incidents. There has been a bar there for decades
The same complaints were lodged against the former owner, in an attempt to prevent him from giving the license to someone else. The receiver of the license far as I know never operated in the Borough. So the attendees could not say how it would be operated.
During the testimony I saw numerous people testify, none of them said they called the police.
I should live in close proximity to a bar? I do, have there been problems? a few over the years, but hey I move near several bars.
Wonder if the assembly will treat any group trying to get a gun range into the borough the same way.
I was just out and visited a close friend that lives out on the Hot Springs Road and has lived out there for 30 yrs. We both agree that the building that was going to "house" this bar was substandard, but that the people that are in such protest of the bar are just out to keep ANY bar from that area. We also agree that the bar should have never been moved from where it was at!! That bar had been there MUCH longer than ANY of its neighbors, and as has been stated above, if you move to an area with a bar, don't complain.
When I see who and what goes screaming by me in there trucks or new modle cars on my way to and from work everyday I'm wondering what more could be allowed. People haul butt not just on Chena Hotsprings rd. I turn every day from Farmers loop onto the Steese. People comming into town from the North are ALL hauling butt to beat that light.Wait for the snow! And I pass the road the Dogsbar used to be on. No chance to hot rod on that one. Been up and down it too to see how many kids are out there past 9PM . Diden't see any. I vote to make Fairbanks a dry town and see if that would make everyone happy. For Petes sake. And while I'm on it. The people comming and going eve.s and mornings can give us little cars a break. I ONLY go from Farmers Loop to the Johansen,what is that? A 1/2 mile?? But everyone seems to think they have to go 70. I just get up speed and have to turn again. Whatever!!! Whats the big rush? We can go across town from one side to the other in 20 min. By the way I'm the little white Buick putting along.Hoping not to get pushed of the road by sober people. And yes. The Dogs bar/Steese lounge as it used to be. Is,was, basicly in my neighborehood. Thank you.
What neighborhood?
I've been down there to the feed n seed store 100 times, I didn't see a neighborhood!
The nearest neighborhood is a 1/2 mile away near Magrath rd.
I live in the area and would have welcomed the Pizza place. I respect the Gettinger's but believe this to be a Nimby example. Some on here it seems would welcome back prohibition.
Pat
I agree Pat. It never ceases to amaze me how some would want to move here and change this place. Fairbanks was built on drinking, hard living, hard working, hard partying, a few loose floozies, gambling, etc. Why would one want to come here if they disliked this sort of behavior??
When did I move to Utah? I thought this was Alaska!
Pizza is always good. And beer. Pizza and beer. C'mon, what's wrong wit dat??
I am amazed that the Borough can make or break a business on "hear-say". The lynch mob who have been turning out at the Assembly meetings are mis-stating the facts to get everyone all riled up!
1) The log shell isn't finished - the work will be done when the liquor license is transferred.
2) If the Assembly won't let Troy transfer his license to this location, then they should provide him with locations they can approve.
3) The Facts: The zoning is "GU1" which means that a business can operate at the site, the closest neighbor is 3/4 mile away, there is more than 1/2 mile visibility either direction, there are 4 lanes - providing plenty of room for turning, the property runs along a section line easement - which works out great for putting in a driveway, and the business Troy is intending would provide the residents with food, coffee, and refreshments! Anything else said is NOT the truth!
4) The nearest establishment offering anything similar is Two Rivers (15 miles up CHSR), Bostons (7 miles away in town), etc. I thought we lived in Alaska, where private business owners were supported! Why are the local residents supporting a chain - Pizza Hut (10 miles away) - but won't support a local business owner?
5) Can the Assembly dictate what businesses are allowed in a "GU1"? I bought property with that zoning so I can have a business!
6) Is the Borough willing to buy Troy's liquor license from him if they won't approve him opening a business to use it?
Post a comment
Commenting requires registration.