Anchorage men involved in Fairbanks motel shootout
Originally published Tuesday, October 20, 2009 at 1:43 p.m.
Updated Tuesday, October 20, 2009 at 11:48 p.m.
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Stumble It!FAIRBANKS — Three people were shot early Tuesday morning after an apparent drug deal gone bad at the Super 8 Motel.
Fairbanks police were called to the Airport Way motel just after 1:30 a.m. for a report of shots fired on the third floor.
Eight people visiting Fairbanks from Anchorage were renting a room when they heard a knock at the door, police said. Four people — three of them brandishing handguns — walked in and ordered the Anchorage residents to the floor.
One of the visitors from Anchorage, Peter S. Khamphanh, 19, refused to comply with the gunmen and a struggle ensued.
“He was struck by a gun, and that’s when the gun battle erupted,” Fairbanks police Lt. Dan Welborn said. “Bullets were flying all over.”
Khamphanh was hit in the left leg and returned fire at his attackers, according to police. At least a dozen shots were fired.
Bullet holes littered the walls and bed of the room, according to police. The room’s television and window also were damaged. Police recovered drugs from the room, but Welborn declined to elaborate beyond that.
The two other men shot in the fracas have been identified as brothers Daniel McKinney, 26, and Willy Graham, 19, both of Fairbanks. Both are believed to have been among the four men who entered the room with guns drawn, Welborn said.
McKinney, who was shot in the arm and rib cage, was listed in stable condition as of Tuesday afternoon. Graham, who was shot in the stomach and shoulder blade, was in critical but stable condition.
Linda Wholecheese, McKinney and Graham’s mother, said her sons met her at a bingo game a few hours before the shooting. Wholecheese, who is visiting from the village of Huslia, said nothing seemed out of the ordinary at the time.
Both men have had previous run-ins with the law, she said.
“They told me they’re not in gangs,” she said. “They’ve been in and out of jail. I know they’re in gangs.”
In 2001, McKinney was accused of pulling a gun on security guards at Underground, an under-21 club now closed. He reportedly fired twice at the ground to scare the guard. He later pleaded guilty to a reduced charge of evidence tampering in connection with the shooting.
Wholecheese said she intends to stay in Fairbanks while her sons recover.
After the shootout, the four gunmen fled the motel, possibly in a white car, police said. Graham and McKinney were dropped off at Fairbanks Memorial Hospital anonymously.
Police believe they have identified everyone involved in the incident.
Khamphanh was treated and released from the hospital Tuesday morning. At the time of the shooting, he was wearing a baggy shirt, which was struck by four bullets — none of which pierced his body.
“He’s extremely lucky,” Welborn said.
No one has yet been arrested in connection with the incident and no charges have been filed. The victims from Anchorage told police that they did not know the Fairbanks gunmen who came to their door.
While some of the individuals involved are believed to have ties to street gangs, police have not labeled the incident as gang-related.
“It’s still under investigation,” Welborn said. “In these cases, a lot of folks are not being truthful.”
Anyone with information about the shooting is asked to call the Fairbanks police investigations unit at 450-6550.
Community Discussion
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And more idiots with guns...
Let's hear from the gun "enthusiasts".
krissy- idiots come with all kind of hobbies.. some with guns, some with fast cars, boats, snowmachines and some with keyboards.
hmmmm 1:30am sounds kinda drug related to me....
If a gun "enthusiast" had been nearby and threaten, 3 less people would have been in the gene pool....
Annoy a liberal............think for yourself........
we need the snow and cold to get here so the "gangstas" will stop playing outside...
krissy,
You make no sense. Sound like an anti gun person to me. Yes idiots! Read what nanook1934 says, that is correct.
Wendee,
LOL, thank you that was pretty good!
This is why I love Fairbanks such a safe quite little town with no wackos....
Yep I bet is is drug related.
Annoy a conservative........ use the word Obama in your screen name
This happened almost 14 hours ago and this is what we get???? And I here subscriptions are down.... hmmmmmmm
Must of heard what kind of punishment you get for shooting a gun from your car. One month in jail.
Oh krissy - you knew this would happen, didn't you?
They'll call you an idiot, not seeing the irony in the situation. They'll throw in the "guns don't kill people" line, and they'll cite all their studies and factoids. They'll say that people can be killed by anything, not just guns (despite the fact that while you can run from the threat of a knifing or a strangling, you can't outrun a bullet aimed at your fleeing back). They'll ridicule you for having the sense not to own a gun yourself, if you're not comfortable, and they'll call you names, because... well, that's what they do. I don't know why. I guess it makes them feel superior.
Annoy them all - don't respond to their schoolyard taunts.
BTW, one of my favorite things that gun lovers do is brag about how they (or someone with a gun) would have shot the "perps" had they been there, or had someone else not intervened (WalMart guy). Just makes you feel all warm and secure, don't it? No one ever gets hurt in the crossfire...
I've mentioned this before and I'll say it again, I lost a parent to domestic violence involving a gun, but I guess until something like that happens to you personally, you'll never understand how devastating a gun in the hand of a drunk or an enraged but otherwise loving person can be. All the gun safety classes in the state of Alaska can't prevent someone from misusing a weapon that's so quick, handy, deadly and final if that's what they want to do.
Yeah, go ahead - LOL.
Hey krissy - YOU WERE RIGHT ABOUT ONE THING - IDIOTS! But with a gun or a club, violence happens. Please cure us all, would ya? Phtttt
It was probaly a fight over one room not having a bible in it,I'm sure it wasn't drug related.Darn kids anyway.
I never understand why some people can't seem to get it through their heads that people can be murdered at the hands of something other than a gun.
Hobbes I am sorry for your experience, but, you cannot possibly blame it on the "gun". I am sure there were knives available - or bare hands for that matter.
People kill people - a gun only adds to the cost.
maybe they were fighting over who was going to take the towels
Actually if a gun enthusiast had been there there would probably been four injured people. It happened in a room and the hallway..
The idiots left in two cars, one which happend to be white. An injured in each car and one in the lobby.
For all you people that think that outlawing guns is a magic wand that will make guns disappear, I have a solution. Why not pass a law against murder? Dammit,dammit,dammit, my wand quit working.
hobes -that is a terrible story and effected your life it a manner that is not unique, it is the same story many children and spouses have about a car, a knife, a fist.. people will do what they do and if someone is intent on hurting you it will happen regardless of the weapon available.
To read this little blurb and get idiots out of it yes I can see that, to immediately throw in a call for gun enthusiast to defend the acts of what on the surface, appears to be a drug deal gone wrong, is uncalled for and as inaccurate as a call for any comic book collector to speak up and defend the actions of an arson committed in a movie theater killing 6 and only leaving behind the remnants of a Batman and Robin version 1 collector edition.
Only to an uninformed hater without the knowledge that a comic book enthusiast would never use a collectable comic for such an act does this appear to be the act of a comic collector.
Can you understand my story? People who truly know,use and respect guns are not out there shooting people at 1:30 in the morning unless you are in my house uninvited and trying to harm my family.
I am sorry for your loss, I had my own loss and it was a bottle in the hand of a drunk. Not as politically explosive but just as deadly.
Every time. You people just don't get it do you? I'm all for responsible gun ownership but it's a heck of alot easier to defend yourself against someone with a knife or a club than some idiot with a gun. Not Heman the Hunter, but Crackhead Joe defending his turf so his street cred doesn't suffer. They are better armed than you or I and I guarantee they have more bullets. Just how many of you have the training or the nerve to jump into a situation like that and start firing? How do you know you're shooting at the real bad guy and not some kid from the village who's just getting back to the motel at the wrong time and is caught in the crossfire?
I don't know what the answer is, but I'm pretty sure I don't want anyone carrying a gun in town except for me. Then I'll feel safe. Nice and secure.
Oh, and that kid with the gun at the gun show, I couldn't help but think what his girlfriend or wife would face if he's upset and wants to wipe out her and her whole family if he goes temporarily insane or God tells him to. You know, til death do us part and all that.
I heard it was a bunch of Christians trying to convert some gay people back to normal god and Obama loving Christians.
More drug related crimes sparking up before a long cold winter?
"Oh, and that kid with the gun at the gun show, I couldn't help but think what his girlfriend or wife would face if he's upset and wants to wipe out her and her whole family if he goes temporarily insane or God tells him to."
Yeah, Kathleeninthearctic, we should probably start being worried about everyone! Zombies, even! EVERYONE PANIC!
"Annoy a liberal............think for yourself........"
Did you hear that from Rush or was it Hannity?
And more idiots with 1300.00 dollars to spend.
Here's the big question.
Do you really believe that if guns were illegal, that these criminals would not have guns???
Lets see...
Drugs are illegal - that didn't stop them.
Breaking into a hotel room is illegal - that didn't stop them.
Kidnapping and assault is illegal - that didn't stop them.
So, if having a gun were illegal, than these criminals would all of the sudden be afraid of, what, breaking the law???
they spray a room with bullets and none of them are in jail?
Hey Kathleen in the Arctic - Would you like to meet that kid from the gun show??? Then at least you could judge him on knowledge and not a bad picture staged by the newsminer.
Put your money where your mouth is, lets arrange a face to face and you can see which one of you is the better person. I guarantee you it is the kid at the gun show.
Sick of hearing this crap about a kid that was the victim of the newsminer and their lousy photography.
Too bad they weren't all killed.
Annoy a conservative.....think.
As a law abiding gun owner I do not feel I have to justify myself to anyone for the actions of what appear to be criminals.
Do the owners of matches have to justify themselves when someone misuses matches to commit arson?
Do law abiding drivers have to justify or excuse themselves for the acts of a few drunk drivers?
And as for using a knife or club to "defend" oneself, that is simply idiotic. But if it makes you fell better go for it.
A woman who is prepared and trained can defend herself from much larger, stronger, assailant with a gun.
Do you want to live in a place where guns are illegal? Go to our nation's capital. Experience one of the highest rates of crime of any city in our country.
An armed society is a polite society.
ummm... a bit of humble pie...
I meant; An armed prepared woman can defend herself from a much larger assailant (provided he doesn't have a gun). ahhemm....
I do not understand how people can even mock this because there are lives at risk right now, it does not matter what they have done it is the fact that a nineteen year old boy may lose his life and those who sit here and ridicule him seriously need another hobby.
More clowns that don't know how to use guns properly, that's the sad thing about it! Shooting aimlessly and hoping to hit someone or something, hilarious! Yeah, that's real gangsta stuff, LOL!
What are fracas? (cut and paste) "The two other men shot in the fracas have been identified as brothers Daniel McKinney, 26, and Willy Graham, 19, both of Fairbanks"
Actually, as Kathleen and Krissy don't support or believe in the 2nd Amendment, maybe they should just pack up and move to another nation.
That Amendment is one of the values of this nation.
Lump it or leave it.
Hummmm...last I heard, discharging a weapon within city limits was illegal. No one has been charged???? I know investigations take time but usually a known charge can hold them long enough to get the facts. I feel for the other patrons at the motel. Bet they lose a few customers over this one.
Eventually an innocent bystander is going to be shot in one of these gang-related shooting sprees. Get these punks off the streets
http://www.myspace.com/6a6y6oy6
same willy graham?
Just more reasons for the law-biding person should carry concealed, with proper training. Ammo is so expensive, every bullet should count.
THE WORL IS A VIOLENT PLACE AND IT ALWAYS WILL BE AS LONG AS HUMANS ARE AROUND BOTTOM LINE.
fracas. n.
A noisy, disorderly fight or quarrel; a brawl. See synonyms at brawl.
Geez, if you're a distric attorney you sure do stay busy up here continually dealing with idiots such as this.
"More clowns that don't know how to use guns properly, that's the sad thing about it! Shooting aimlessly and hoping to hit someone or something, hilarious! Yeah, that's real gangsta stuff, LOL!"
12 people in a small hotel room (8 people sharing 1 room?), at least 4 guns going off and only 2 hospitalized. Pathetic marksmanship.
"Khamphanh was treated and released from the hospital Tuesday morning. At the time of the shooting, he was wearing a baggy shirt, which was struck by four bullets — none of which pierced his body."
So now baggy shirts are bulletproof?
Anyone know the type of drugs found?
Sounds like punks and they get what they got...too bad it wasnt a few more!
Im so glad to be able to defend my family (with a gun) against these types! Its funny how people against guns or faith have to chime in with their thoughts.
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ADF, you said: "Actually, as Kathleen and Krissy don't support or believe in the 2nd Amendment, maybe they should just pack up and move to another nation.
That Amendment is one of the values of this nation.
Lump it or leave it."
What a completely stupid thing to say. Show me where either of us said that we didn't support or believe in the 2nd amendment? (By the way, do you know what ANY of the OTHER amendments are?)
What an idiot. YOU pack up and move. And quit implying that you're more patriotic than me or anybody else.
Hobbes, thank you so much for your comments to me. I was going to just read the comments but so many people said so many things that I was just steaming!
I'm sorry for your loss; it must have been devastating, and I'll bet reading some of these things makes you sad or angry - I don't know which. I've lost 3 friends to guns - one hunting accident, one suicide and the last one (well, the first one really) was a kid in elementary school who died when another kid was showing him his dad's gun and it went off. Of those, the only intentional shooting was my friend at the university who was having a fight with his girlfriend and got depressed about them separating, and went outside and shot himself - it was a total shock to everybody who knew him.
People can defend their rights, embrace their weapons and argue about the laws until hell freezes over, but the truth is like you said - guns are "quick, handy, deadly and final". Most other things aren't.
I can't read anymore of this crap - "Just more reasons for the law-biding person should carry concealed, with proper training. Ammo is so expensive, every bullet should count." Every bullet should count... Every PERSON should count. Maybe that other trite saying should apply - "Kill 'em all - let God sort 'em out."
Wait a minute
Canetoad - "Its funny how people against guns or faith have to chime in with their thoughts."
FAITH??? What exactly are you saying? And what are you, the editor??? You get to say who shares their thoughts and who doesn't? OMG!!!
akrose
Etymology: French, din, row, from Italian fracasso, from fracassare to shatter. Date: 1716. : a noisy quarrel : brawl. Learn more about "fracas" with Google ...
It was used as a description of the activity. (Not the name of a body-part)
THIS NEW MINER SUCKS THEY DONT LET REAL COMMENTS STAY JUST THE MEANINGLESS ONES WHERE PEOPEL TRY TO SOUND SMARTER THAN THE NEXT PERSON....
I WISH FOR ONE DAY THAT ONE OF SOUTHSIDE CHICAGO'S GANGS DECIDED TO VISIT FAIRGBANKS AND BANG WITH THEESE SO CALLED GANGS...BET FAIRBANKS WOULD QIET DOWN A BIT WHAT YOU THINK?
THIS CITY IS A JOKE.....PEOPLE MAKE DRAMA HERE...ITS THE MOST QUIET CITY I EVER LIVED IN LOL...
THE ONLY REAL STUFF THAT GOES ON HERE IS DRUG DEALS GOING BAD...THATS A GUN FIGHT WAITING TO HAPPEN...AS FAR AS GANG LIFE....NO ONE IS FORCED INTO IT....THEY CHOOSE TO LIVE IT....SILLY SILLY PEOPLE...BUT HEY I GUESS WITH OUT THEM THERE WOULD BE NOTHING TO TALK ABOUT HUH.
So, what are we betting on Sherry? Who's a better person? What's the criteria? What I said was what the picture brought to my mind which is guns in the hands of young men who haven't had the chance to temper their emotions with wisdom. Like for instance the kid who was doing the shooting driving down Chena Pump road. How about that kid that shot the boy that was standing next to his ex-girlfriend over by south Turner St. We all could come up with hundreds and hundreds of examples just from this year alone. You can jump and down and scream but it really doesn't change the facts that our founding fathers never would have envisioned a world like the one we live in today. Full of junkies and gangbangers and unstable lovesick men and right wing nuts and left wing nuts and perverts around most every corner. I know there is no way we can disarm the criminals. Too many gun manufacturers make too much money arming the suckers. That's why I carry a gun. I know I am responsible. I don't however know that that young man is or any of these other young men and women out there that can pick up a piece and feel powerful.
These kids, and the above poster, are proof that John Wayne was correct when he commented, "Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid."
I didn't mean you Kathleen. Although we disagree, I wouldn't infer that you are stupid.
DrKarean
"12 people in a small hotel room (8 people sharing 1 room?), at least 4 guns going off and only 2 hospitalized.
Pathetic marksmanship."
---------
10! points.
Which reminds the next time I rent a room to ask, if the walls are made of cement block.
This incident most likely is gang-turf related, which by definition means drugs and guns are involved. These folks don't give a damn about petty discourse about liberal vs. conservative, gun rights, or especially thinking for oneself. Better we should all get it right together and work to unwelcome all gangs from Fairbanks.
"What are fracas"......I believe that akrose was being facetious.
THIS IS WHY WEED NEEDS TO BE LEGAL...EVRYBODY WOULD RELAX SO MUCH MORE....
Can anyone identify the period in our history when we ceased being responsible for our own safety and security, and it became the sole responsibility of a tiny group of people we call law enforcement?
Your family's safety and security is YOUR responsibility. Your neighborhood security is your responsibility, and your neighbors'. Arming yourselves and learning how to defend your homes and families are your responsibilities as an Americans. How could you ever think someone else should do the job? Police can't be everywhere at the same time, and shouldn't be expected to. YOU feed, clothe, house, and protect YOUR family, because it's YOUR job, not the government's job.
Arming yourself is as much a civic duty as voting, and just as important. Don't leave the responsibility to others. Nobody cares about you and your family the way you do. A gun is a tool, and nothing to be afraid of. You just need to learn how to handle it, use it, and care for it. You people who watch too many movies and too much television have a warped sense of reality. One could kill with a sharp pencil, a fork, a car, a claw hammer, liquid drano, or any number of other tools. As the saying goes, guns cause crime like matches cause arson.
Here is an article about knife violence in Europe.
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jan/05/...
"Some youths now carry bladed weapons out of fear for their safety, without malevolent intent, but that needs to be discouraged because the knives can be turned on them, Trowsdale said."
First it was guns, now it is knives, next it will be cricket bats.
suxx having to read all your comments, but suxx even more when your family is involved
What a shame... gun violence in Fairbanks and I was not invited. Dang!
I have several at the house, I would have loved to been invited to help shoot at and waste away a few dumba$$ druggies. I wouldn't even bill the city for my ammo.
Attention all idiots with guns, stop smoking dope or sniffing 12 hours prior to comitting your ignorant crime, your making us smart gun owners look bad.
For those of you who think I am wrong, please stop by and see my new 44MAG... LMAO!
Seems to me there were several gun enthusiasts on the scene :shrug:
I am armed, to the teeth. And I ain't apologizing or justifying or wasting effort explaining myself to liberals. Just know that I am armed. If you don't like it then good, all the better. Why some of you think there is nobility in weakness is beyond me. You ain't getting my guns and as you all like to say Godbama ain't comin for them nether. Right.
Wendy you hit it on the head---I am in favor however of haviing to have a permit to carry conceiled---at least if you are caught with it concealed it would be a felony. I think the permit fee should be minimal
FBI statistics on violent crime, 2008:
Murders in the United States - 16,272 persons
Types of Weapons Used (rounded):
Percent by firearm - 66.9%
Percent by knives or cutting instrument - 13.4%
Percent by unknown or other dangerous weapon - 13.7%
Percent by personal weapon (hands, fists, feet, etc,
includes being pushed) - 6.1%
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2008/offenses...
Why do folks think the liberals aren't armed?
Hint to the two wounded 'brothers'.....
When you enter someone's room/domocile/home with firearms drawn, while shouting unfriendly commands, and demanding things that aren't yours to demand, make sure that;
1.) Your living will has been signed by a witness, and has been thoroughly completed..
2.) At least have enough practice at the range to hit -one- of your targets in a meaningful manner...
and
3.) Leave your momma a request to get a DNA test done, along with IQ testing for the remainder of your (surviving) 'family,' because, at that point, you've simply -got- to find out whether your final shining example of outrageous stupidity is of a genetic origin or not....
Very funny Dirk.
AK Man 45 I have another theory. It wasn't a drug deal gone bad. It was drug dealing out of that motel room and it wasn't profiting the 4 men that broke into the room. You minimize the gang influence that is going on in Fairbanks right now. Kids are being recruited into the life style and they aren't mature enough to know what they are getting into. That's why kids can't enter into a legal contract. Let's take this one step further. All these kids can't shoot, so the ones that are going to end up getting killed is the child sleeping down the hall or the guy sleeping in the next room that's waiting to catch a plane up north or to one of the mines in the area. How about the parents that just came into town from one of the villages to do a little shopping and visit their grandparent at Denali Center. These shoot outs around town aren't because of weed. It's war for the control of the crack/meth trade. You want to minimize the problem to make all these people think there is no problem. It's just our wild imagination or trumped up news stories bent on selling papers.
And thanks Big, I knew you were talking about our little friend here.
WELL KATHLEEN IN THE ARTIC....19 YEARS OLD...I WOULD SAY IS A YOUNG ADULT NOT A CHILD..IN MY OPINION YOU'RE OVER THINKIN ABOUT WHAT I SAID.AND REALLY SEEIN HOW I HAVE REAL RESOURSES IN FAIRBANKS WITH WHAT IS HAPPENING...iM PRETTY SURE IM JUST CALLING IT HOW I SEE IT.....BELIVE ME WE COULD DEBATE ON THIS LITTLE ARTICLE ALL NIGHT BUT FOR WHAT.
Kathleen - then I guess you should not rush to judgment based on a bad picture of an upstanding young man in our society. Yes, I agree it was a bad picture. Do you know the boy?? Obviously not. Then keep the rude comments based on his picture to yourself. If you still have a problem, sit down and talk to the boy. You will be ashamed of yourself.
All this shouting!! Please stop the shouting!! Make the noises stop!!
Another reason for State funded sterilization!!!! I have to take a test to drive a car, and any idiot can produce offspring?????
AK_MAN45 - Why are you yelling?
DIRK THEY LOVE IT YOU GOTTA KEEP THE PARTY JUMPIN' DONT HAVE A PANIC ATTACK
IM NOT YELLING I JUS LIKE CAPS...
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It wasn't a rude comment. It was a truthful comment about having powerful weapons in the hands of children. And he may be a young man and he may be upstanding but that doesn't mean he has the emotional maturity to have access to a weapon like that. That picture wasn't staged or doctored, the look in his eyes wasn't manufactured.
FBI statistics on violent crime, 2008:
Murders by relationship:
Total: 14,180 (does not include "justifiable homicides")
Husband - 119
Wive - 577
Mother - 117
Father - 120
Son - 270
Daughter - 211
Brother - 98
Sister - 15
Other family - 314
Acquaintance - 3,068
Friend - 504
Boyfriend - 145
Girlfriend - 492
Neighbor - 106
Employee - 5
Employer - 9
Stranger - 1,742
Unknown - 6,268
Of the homicides for which the type of weapon was specified, 71.9 percent involved the use of firearms. Of the identified firearms used, handguns comprised 88.3 percent.
Concerning the relationships (if known) of murder victims and offenders, 23.3 percent of victims were slain by family members, 22.0 percent were murdered by strangers, and 54.7 percent were killed by acquaintances (neighbor, friend, boyfriend, etc.).
Concerning the known circumstances surrounding murders, 42.0 percent of victims were murdered during arguments (including romantic triangles) in 2008. Felony circumstances (rape, robbery, burglary, etc.) accounted for 22.9 percent of murders. Circumstances were unknown for 35.3 percent of reported homicides.
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2008/offenses...
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2008/offenses...
Kathleeninthearctic - what are you talking about, "the look in his eyes"?
Repeat:
"Concerning the relationships (if known) of murder victims and offenders, 23.3 percent of victims were slain by family members, 22.0 percent were murdered by strangers, and 54.7 percent were killed by acquaintances (neighbor, friend, boyfriend, etc.)."
Again:
"23.3 percent of victims were slain by family members"
"22.0 percent were murdered by strangers"
"54.7 percent were killed by acquaintances"
One more time - Only "22.0 percent were murdered by strangers"
YA KATHLEEEN WHAT THE HECK MAN...STEREO TYPIN' N CORRECTIN' ME ABOUT STUFF...PFF...
>>>""
"23.3 percent of victims were slain by family members"
"22.0 percent were murdered by strangers"
"54.7 percent were killed by acquaintances" ""<<<
Which -should- motivate all of us to be a tad bit more thoughtful when we reach for that last piece of pie or cake at the dinner table, making certain to always inquire whether anyone else would like seconds..
(This comment was removed by the Newsminer.com staff. Please see our User Agreement for further information.)
Too bad it wasn't like the Saint Valentine's Day massacre. There would be less thugs on the streets. Better start target practicing thugs, maybe you'll hit a thug something next time out.
i'm late to the party, but fracas? put away the thesaurus.
Kudos to the cops for lexical adventurousness: Fracas. Good word that...always made me think of a fracking arse kicking.
Amazing that virtually no one has touched on the notion that if the drug war were declared done and over with, there would be no financial incentive for these kevlar baggy shirted maroons to have a turf war.
Instead many are suggesting they should pull out their magic bang stick and indulge in some self appointed sheriffing: A 19th century solution to a 21st century problem.
Let's keep time travelling back in time for even more solutions:
16th Century: The Rack!
14th Century: Push them off the edge of the world!
1st Century: Crucifixion!
2,500 BC: Sacrifice!
47,000 BC: Drill holes in their skulls to let the evil spirits out!
I get a bad feeling that some of these might also sound appealing to certain bang stick caressers.
Oooga ooga
When I look at the picture, and I see the expression on his face and the look in his eyes as he looks at the weapon I see a young man, not much older than a child really and there is nothing in the look on his face that suggests maturity or wisdom. Just youth and inexperience. It's a bad combination for a weapon of that magnitude.
AkMan45, you're pretty easy to peg actually.
Really - how does a drug deal go bad? You give them money and in return they give you drugs. Sounds pretty simple to me. Just goes to show you that drug dealers aren't that bright.
bjaime143
The word is "SUCKS" not "SUXX"...would imagine your ENGLISH teacher is rolling over in their grave! Oh the dumbing down of our fine educational system. Doesn't matter, you probably didn't pay attention in school anyway!
12 men, atleast eight guns, tiny room, only three wounded??? I don't know how you could miss? Divine intervention like the movie "pulp fiction" just begs the question, why would the good lord save any of these nimrods
roadie said:
"I am armed, to the teeth. And I ain't apologizing or justifying or wasting effort explaining myself to liberals. Just know that I am armed. If you don't like it then good, all the better. Why some of you think there is nobility in weakness is beyond me. You ain't getting my guns and as you all like to say Godbama ain't comin for them nether. Right."
Drunk and typing stupid at 7:36pm. Why would you tell anyone you are "armed to the teeth"? You simply give them the advantage by knowing this. It if far better for your enemy to think you are a harmless little wimp... it make your job much easier - idiot! ;)
dog
Kathleen, and the weapon of that magnitiude. It is just a semi auto rifle. Not much of a weapon really compared to what the government has. And kids that age are fighting for your freedom as we speak.
Pat
I love how people make assumptions about guns and liberals. You can be a liberal and own lots of guns. There is no law against liberals owning guns. So please stop assuming because you think someone is liberal they don't own guns.
Of course it has to do with drugs mckinney is a well known gang member who just recently was released from jail this year. Maybe they will learn that street life and being a gangster isn't what its cut out to be, we can only hope this incident keeps them from the streets, as well as other fake gangsters.
Young men in the military have older men to teach them discipline and self control (hopefully). They try to teach them honor and defending the weak (except on weekends when some go out and pound the weak and defenseless). The sargeants and officers try to lead by example. At least most of them do.
We need to work on that tyranny and oppression thing.
Kathleen, so you assume this young man has not been trained? There are many programs in the Interior which teach firearm safety and proper weapon handling. Tvsa comes to mind. There are also rifle teams in most high schools.
Pat
@jimp: Please let them believe "if someone is liberal they don't own guns".
dog
swords would have been more effective
Kathleen says I'm pack'n, but "I" must look into your eyes, to decide if you have the same rights as "ME".
I just looked at the photo of the young man with the gun again and he's not looking at his gun. He is looking at something below him.
Think about the effect this has on people who work there & their families. Keep them in your prayers, this isn't anything easy to do ... returning to work for another day or night of low wages and possibly risking their life. Think about it being your loved one going back into that night after night. Bullets don't care, walls can be ripped through, what is to stop these things from happening? This could have been any establishment in town. No respect for their elders, for law enforcement, or any reason to obey laws since they seem to do it again and again and still keep getting out and onto our streets.
I believe there were 3 or 4 people staying in the room, the others were evidently visitors ... looks like in the wrong place at the wrong time. The story says guy with the baggy shirt did get shot in the leg, and with the length of the shirts, some of the bullet holes are probably from that shot. Not too sure about the reporting ... the beginning says he was shot in the leg, later, it says his shirt had 4 holes but he didn't get shot.... huh???
Please keep the employees in your thoughts & prayers.
i agree with truthinnews looking at the bigger picture. I'm sure if they knew they would appreciate your concern as well as prayers.
RE: AK_MAN45
When they make CAP LOCK keys illegal, only outlaws will have CAP LOCK keys.
That's exactly right Seven and the nature of the problem. I believe I have the right to bear arms and I do. However, I don't think any gangbanger should have that same right. How do we take back the neighborhoods and streets of the cities in the lower 48 where gangs like the crips and bloods and mexican mafia rule with an iron fist? How about deploying the troops that are trained to fight for our freedom in those neighborhood to free the good people from the fear and intimidation and murder and mayhem that they have to live with on a day to day basis.
Pat, maybe you're right and he has been trained. That doesn't mean he has the maturity to wield that weapon. And for the sake of argument, even if he is the exception to the rule, we've been introduced to self portraits on Myspace and other website of young men wielding weapons in their gansta poses with weapons and dreams of drive-by's and blood and the "respect" they think goes along with it.
Kathy, I can't help but think that your displeasure arising from that picture of the dude in the paper is from more then just normal concern. Really, what is it that bothers you? A lot of people have guns. The bullet is what really maters. The gun is incidental to bullet. You know that as well as I. No, there is something else, but what. He does look to have a bit of color in him so that could be it. Or maybe it is the perception of strength that has you bothered? Something in that picture is motivating you, what could it be?
I'm not really sure how this evolved into a gun rights argument. The bottom line is everyone was lucky that just the members of the two gangs were hit. A lot of people come to our city and stay in our hotels and could have been above, below, or next to this room or in the hall. I don't think a lot of the tourists that come up here are carrying guns. I see alot of people with bravado talking about what they would do if they were in this situation but as far as I am concerned it is just talk. Keep your guns at home.
I find it interesting that some kids come in from Huslia and KNOW that someone from anchorage is at the super 8 selling cocaine. Hey, here is a thought, why not check room records. I would bet a dollar that the folks from anchorage have been using that hotel as a front to sell drugs, just like they used to do at the Bartlett.
Funny that some Kids from Huslia know that you can get drugs at the Super 8 (ball) and our cops are watching dumpsters behind a bar....
This is really annoying, the young man in the picture was at a gun show (carrying a rifle) uhm? What the?? He does not appear to be some threat!! Maybe I am wrong?? Oh, wait, he was carrying a gun! What the . There are more than enough people at a gun show to take care of him if, he was a real a problem. It would be really interesting to see how many people in Alaska, not the lower 48!! are killed or injured with firearms. I will bet anyone!! more people in Alaska are injured with face to fist, knife etc. than guns. CALL ME OUT ON THIS.
Give this young guy a break... he was going to a GUN SHOW.. WITH A GUN... Uh???
I have to speak my mind once again. All you "Internet gangsters" that sit behind closed doors talking about what you WOULD have done are always the quickest to lay down. You assume this was gang related because you
might like to think you KNOW the likes of the folks involved. Buuuttttt I guess it's up to you all to sit around on your round rears and entertain each other 24/7. Other folks have better things to do. Like GET MONEY.
If "if" was a 5th we'd all be drunk.
Comments provide a real look into the reasons Alaska youth face lives of alcohol and drug addiction.......you've got to have your guns.
Good thing none of theise guys ever went to the range. 12 people in a room and multiple guns with no one getting killed. A bit of a miriacle mixed with idiots.
(This comment was removed by the Newsminer.com staff. Please see our User Agreement for further information.)
"...At least a dozen shots were fired. Bullet holes littered the walls and bed of the room… The room’s television and window also were damaged. Police recovered drugs from the room, but... No one has yet been arrested in connection with the incident and no charges have been filed."
Yes, bad people have, keep, and carry guns. Guns are not going away. So, now the answer is to remove guns from everyone else? Try taking the guns away from the 8 people involved who placed bullet holes in the walls, bed, television and window but were unable to kill each other.
Drugs were found but no one arrested and no charges filed? I am beginning to agree with those who declare that drugs should be legalized (some of them anyway, like marijuana) and NO, I am not inclined to use.
Maybe if they had not been "using their product" at the time they would have been able to "get more bullets on target".
its hard to believe no arrests or charges have been filed,didnt thay damage a tv?
This is indicative of a larger problem that is moving to Fairbanks.....
Dont go moose hunting with any of these guys. You would have to do all the shooting. They couldnt hit a moose unless they could walk up and stick the rifle in his ribs, then they might miss..
Kathleen - you are just showing ignorance. You are frightened of a picture. Do you have any clue how ridiculous that is? Have you not ever had a bad picture of yourself? You fell for what the newsminer was going for by posting a picture like that. Final time I am going to say this - Mikey does not look like that!
twain- They wouldn't have a chance if the moose wore a baggy shirt.
Nah Mooseman,LEO in this town only arrest the responible, hardworking, taxpaying white folks.
They should put major work into this to find out what exactely was going on, find the shooter and put a big STOP to these want to be gangstas. They can't even hit anything, what loosers. They are inviting the real gangstas here. If other bad folks from down south see that police here can't even control little small town wanma be gangstas, they are going to come here for their careers, or these ones here will learn how to shoot better and get better at their "career." The city of Fairbanks need to make a point of exposing these people and making them pay in the justice system.
They probably didn't arrest anyone yet because then they would be responsible for the hospital bills. They have to wait until they are discharged.
Oh Kathleen, you are the picture perfect lib. You are frightened by your own over active imagination and have used logic in the least. You should be a poster child for your movement, "Think with your heart and not your mind". Think about that before you post.
Kathleeninthearctic- better armed with more bullets than me.... I dought it. The great thing about america, as of right now, is that I can own as many guns as I want as long as I am not a felon, or mentally unstable. So if you want to come to my house and try to break in thinking I won't kill you and be able to sleep peacefully that night. Just give me a try.......... And stop being a bunch of HIPPIES!!!!!!
Wow, thanks, Anchorage drug scum,
for coming all the way up to Fairbanks
to perpetrate your stupidity.
Next time, stay home.
Yeah, hey, where on the body is your fracas?
If you get hurt in the fracas, can they put
a cast on it? Or do you just limp?
Man, does my fracas ache today . . .
Yeah, getting shot in the fracas is a big joke until it's your fracas with a hole in it.
You're right ArcticWriter, we should pass local hire (dealer?) laws that only our local drug scum can deal drugs and shoot up a Fairbanks hotel room...oh never mind.
At least the newsMiner printed this story. use to be they would only print tourist friendly news that painted a rosy picture of this town. Live here long enough and you will soon learn is it nothing but a dirty little river town run by corrupt politicians and good old boys.
Sorry arcticwriter, we happen to have an indiginous (hope I spelled that correctly) population of scum bags that need thinning out. I'm ok with them thinning each other out for the near future.
This reminds me of the "A Team", where no one gets killed when villians are spraying caps all over the joint.
Where's BA, Sarge, Face, and Murdock when they were needed ?
From reading this article and having a marksman and sharpshooter status, I kinda laughed at these nearsighted wannabe gangbangers...I do hope the judge throws the law book at these idiots and lock them up for a long time - all that shooting and dealing was uncalled for.
Mr. McKinney's Myspace page doesnt leave much to imagine
http://www.myspace.com/godson_thegreat
Here, Ignorantintheacrtic(kathy)
Suggest removal I don't see any mention in the article about the dozen or so tables where people were selling (**GASP!**) candles, jewelry, and assault fudge. Thank goodness the Jerky Hut wasn't there. Oh, there was also a guy next to our tables that was giving away bits of fossils to kids and talking biology with them, not a single gun on his table, horrible behavior for our youth to see.
The guy holding the rifle in the picture was standing in front of my table when the NM was interviewing him. He was carrying it around trying to sell it, not just trying to look cool. He didn't exactly have a line of people next to him trying to buy it. So much for hoarding guns.
Kathleen is obssesed with that young man in the picture. I would be more terrified of HER.
Ok, it WAS kinda funny that noone got killed by a bullet, expecially since they were flying all over the place. But really, it WOULDN'T have been funny if someone HAD died. Sure, you can all talk about "clearing the gene pool", and such, but if one of those idiots had been killed, it would have been a shame, none the less.....
Sad thing is, they'll end up killing someone or getting killed in the future, unless they straighten up their young lives....
We all know if you make gun laws, then these guys would not have been carrying guns.........right Krissy?
Reading the article and comments has convinced me that I need a better quality and more powerful carry gun. Off to the Sportsman Warehouse this noon.
McKinney is a convicted felon, Graham has pending felony drug charges.
Jobob, Olypopper, etc and of course Sherry, I'm not a liberal and I'm not a hippie. I'm certainly not a pacifist. The point I'm arguing and the one you all are dancing around, and one that I would love for you guys to really answer. Defend these gangbangers right to bear arms. Some of them don't have criminal records because no one will testify against them. Sherry, perhaps your friend is the most upstanding, level headed, non-violent comman sense packing young man on the planet. Most young men aren't. That picture represented youth with guns and most aren't mature enough to handle that responsibility.
To answer your question Kathleen: Yes, even gangbangers have a right to carry. It is a RIGHT. But when you talk about random rights based on looks, we all think your whacko.
Oh and Kathleen: "That picture represented..." is YOUR opinion. I think he looks fine. All young people should be taught how to use a fire arm respectfully. The real issue for you Kathleen, is respect. You'r seeing that America has lost it. And with that loss comes the proceeds of reverse civility. Welcome to the NEW WORLD ORDER.
I've never said it was anything but my opinion. So do you think those same young men should have access to their firearms when they are drunk or high? Gakked out for 4 or 5 days in a row? How about you Sublime? Do you lose control when you are drunk?
Most of us are tucked away in our beds, safe and sound when these shoot outs break out. Unless they are driving down the street at the wrong time, like College Road a few months ago. Or maybe if you happen to be working at a hotel, or staying in a room down the hall.
Kathleen - I'm just not interested in living in a world where my rights to own a gun are based on your fear, how it look, or Nancy Pelosi's opinion of what is a good or bad gun or a good or bad gun owner. I want it based on the Constitution.
I'll answer your question also. Until they have their rights taken away these drug dealing gang members can own guns. Once arrested, they can't. While in prison, guns are contraband. If out on bail it will be a condition of their release. If convicted then those rights are taken away.
Possesion of a firearm while intoxicated is third degree misconduct with a weapon under AK law. It's illegal, a C Felony. So the answer is no, i don't think they should have access and neither does the Alaska Legislature.
aperntly. khamphanh has a case here in anchorage. wepons misconduct 3 and felon in possion of a firearm. his pertrial date is today.. and the police let these people go..i can see so many laws broke in this event... fairbanks is geting pretty bad.. glad i moved to palmer.. its hard for me to even visit now days. but i do have good people there..
Is it slightly ironic that Peter Khamphanh was due in court today (Anchorage 3AN-09-08569CR)
Jees, I wonder if he was going to rush back to Anchorage to appear in court.
Even more ironic enough the court case is for felon in possesion of a handgun.
I see a reoccuring theme here
Kathleen, These bums have the same rights as the rest of us until they become felons. Until then we all have constitutional rights to bear arms to defend ourselves.
Life is risky. Live it at your own peril.
To these young men and women it is about respect. A dirty look is disrespectful. Wearing the wrong color is disrespectful. Selling crack in their neighborhood is disrespectful unless they are getting their percentage.
And guess what? We have lost whole neighborhoods and cities to these gangs. These gangs are operating here in Fairbanks. Around all of us. Around our children while they play or go to the movies or go to work.
You never answered my question Sublime. You ever lose control when you're drunk? Are you allowed to carry a gun?
See, not every shooting in Fairbanks is by a GI...
So, we can't count on the justice system to make these criminal drug dealers abide by the laws of our country. Should we as citizens, law abiding citizens, resort to vigilante justice?
Kathleen: I don't drink and it is none of your business if I carry or not. Do you have a solution for this problem? Or are you just trying to say everyone who isn't thinking like you should be left without rights?
Kathleen - you're starting to spiral into absurdity. Who said we can't count on the justice system to make them abide by the laws of the State? It isn't vigilantism to defend yourself.
Never even inferred that I feel people who don't think the same as I do should have no rights. That would make me a religious right wing nut.
Kathleen: To these young men and women it is about attention. They do not know what true respect is about. They think fear is a form of respect. Until our society starts to pick up the discipline pieces laying around, our youth will not care one whit about respect.
hahhaahaa three felons shot!! it was a good day j/k well not really. I think the poster who said there not in jail because the state doesn't want to pay medical bills was right. It would be nice to see some arrests though - I mean they give swifter justice for speeding tickets????
No Alaskaman, I'm arguing against absurdity. It sounds as if these guys are already facing multiple charges for drugs and weapon misconduct and they are still shooting it out with absolutely no regard for anyone around them. It's far more dangerous to be just in the vicinity because it's obviously quite safe to be one of the guys they're shooting at.
I'm not advocating vigilantism either. In order to go hunting these gangbangers, and that's what it would take, you would have to have as little regard for human life as these young men have. You would also have to have an equal disregard for the law.
I don't think gun rights or gun laws are much the issue here.
While it's true that if these people had been armed only with knives, brass knuckles, etc,
-there would have been almost 0 risk to the innocent and uninvolved occupants of the hotel,
-and probably a lot more injury to themselves,
-BUT there is no indication that any reasonable sort of firearm restrictions would have prevented these individuals from having access to such weapons.
At least 3 of the individuals involved appear to have been in illegal possession because of their criminal/legal status. And they had and used fire arms anyway.
I don't think it a miracle that they didn't do each other much damage - regardless of what "John Wayne types" like to imagine/fantatize:
accurate marksmanship,
[in close quarters, with objects like furniture and friends to intervene, when highly excited, and being shot at, and trying to avoid being hit],
is not really very likely.
What is FAR more likely, and miraculously did not ocur, is that stray bullets [most of those fired] did not penetrate walls, floors or ceilings to injure, maim, or kill, any other [innocent] men, women, or children occupying or working in the hotel at the time.
Black Marketeering, of ANY commodity, creates this type of situation. And this type of risk to the population at large.
Gang activity by youth and [young] adults lends itself to black market [drug] activity. Black markets feed, sustains and empowers gang activity.
The same laws and rights that protect that young man in the picture at the guns show are allowing a free flow of weapons into the hands of felons and children.
If you are a normally responsible citizen and have some money or property to your name and do anything wrong, immediately you are put in jail. Maybe the best way to avoid jail is to not be responsible.
Kathleeninthearctic,
"The same laws and rights that protect that young man in the picture at the guns show are allowing a free flow of weapons into the hands of felons and children."
No, they do not; it is against the law for felons and children to purchase guns. That means they have to purchase them illegally (NOT from gun shows). It also demonstrates that felons and 'children' (i.e., "gang members") who "purchase" guns (that is when they cannot steal them or 'trade' for them with drugs or other stolen items) are, by definition, breaking the law. They are frequently allowed to "Plea Bargain" down to lesser sentences (or "time served" and no further time served at all) and are back out on the street TO DO IT ALL OVER AGAIN!
I and most of the decent, honest, law-abiding, gun-owning, friends (that that even includes one or two who are "Liberal" gun owners) have NEVER robbed anyone, NEVER shot anyone, and have NEVER used a gun in a stupid or negligent way. We are NOT going to surrender our guns (or our RIGHT to defend ourselves and our families) because you are scared. Sorry, it's just not going to happen...
Hey I have an idea, instead of getting together to do something about these young punks, lets all jump on kathleeninthearctic because she doesn't agree with us.
Kathleen - yes the Constitution protects all of us. The "free flow of weapons into the hands of felons and children" argument lacks merit. Felons can't legally possess firearms. The rights of children to posses firearms is severely limited. No law protects their possesion, it prohibits it. Possesion by a felon is MIW3, selling a firearm to someone under 18 is MIW4, a minor under 16 without permission who posseses a firearm is guilty of MIW5. These strawman "laws" you refer to simply don't exist.
Doug, How are they getting all those guns then? I don't hear anything about large shipments of weapons getting stolen. There has to be a legal transaction somewhere along the line.
Alaskaman, FBI estimates there are apx. 900000 gangmembers in cities and towns across the United States and they are behind 80% of the crime reported nationwide.
Now I don't know how accurate those statistics are, and for every gang member there are plenty of wannabe's and fledglings that are groping for that "status"
They don't care about the laws, so who is profiting off of arming them?
Does the shoot out have to happen across the street from your house before you take it seriously?
truthinnews,
Depends on what you mean by "jump on" - if you mean 'verbally explain' our disagreement in my own terms (so that maybe she might understand), then yes I agree with you because we also have a fundamental 1st Amendment Right to say what we wish (in spite of Liberal ideas of "Hate Speech" and "Political Correctness").
If you mean 'physically assault' BECAUSE of our disagreement, then NO I don't agree with you because Kathleeninthearctic HAS THE RIGHT TO THINK AND FEEL AND BELIEVE as she wishes to (even if I think she is WRONG). It is only when she tries to organize to DO SOMETHING about my 2nd Amendment Rights that I have a right to organize and DO SOMETHING to counter her efforts.
I will only use my guns in defense of my self, my family, and my property; KITA has nothing to fear from me (or most law-abiding gun owners that I know) until she decides to come to my door to confiscate my property (and that includes my guns)...
Point well taken, 'truthinnews'
While both 'kathleen..' and all the others are really arguing for the same goal - put a lid on this kind of behavior, the threat to the innocent public, the violent disregard for human life in favor of profit, power ['turf', 'respect', etc], the repeating offenses and offenders, the 'system' that isn't effectively addressing the problem . . . . .
What about you Doug. What if the shoot out erupts by the playground and you're not there to defend the kids or their Mom's from stray bullets?
There is a place where virtually no gun violence occurs.Of course that kind of freedom comes with a price....you can't own your own gun...of course there really is no excuse for owning one...because nobody else has them either.
That place is Japan where they hav 50 gun deaths a year to our 30000.
See keep buying more guns...because the statistics show no matter how many you buy they won't guarantee you the peace of mind the Japanese get every day by owning "0".
Okay, point taken Doug. But how do we get the weapons away from those in the drug trade without compromising our own right to bear arms? How do we take back the neighborhoods and towns and cities right here in the United States that aren't living any kind of a "FREE" life?
Kathleeninthearctic,
"How are they getting all those guns then? I don't hear anything about large shipments of weapons getting stolen..."
Funny you should ask. Personally, I have never purchased a gun (long gun or handgun) from a gunshow; I tend to want to purchase my guns new (and recently, those who sell at Gun Shows ask as much if not more for their guns as I would have to pay at a reputable dealer). I have watched "over the shoulder" while friends "negotiated" (sometimes they purchased and sometimes they didn't) but always the seller asks the questions, "Are you a felon?" "Are you a Citizen or a Legal Resident of this Country?" They do ask.
I also remember a program about 14 or 15 years ago; I think it was one of those "Cops" shows (or a precursor) where they would 'reenact' true stories from real life crime. In this one episode, there were 4 or 5 young men from one of the cities in the northeast who were deeply involved in "gun running". They would go "down south" where they could purchase through gun shows and two undercover law enforcement officers (LEOs) discovered what they were up to and confronted them. There was a "shootout" and all of the criminals were subdued and arrested.
During the "credits" when the 'actors' names and the production information was 'scrolling' down the screen they announced the sentences for the 'gun runners' (after breaking the law by unlawfulling purchasing the guns, and then transporting them across multiple state lines for the express purpose of selling them to criminals, all but one were released for probationary periods periods ranging from months to less than two years. Only one received a prison term and that was for 6 months.
If you want to stop crime, put the people who commit crime in prison for significant periods of time (and "hard physical labor" might also help) so that there is some 'incentive' NOT TO COMMIT CRIME!
Kathleen - I believe the same black marketeering that supplies the drugs, 'wholesale' and 'retail', also accounts for the vast majority of illegal weapons in the hands of gangs, dealers, and felons.
ie - people steal to support their drug habits. Guns are frequently in the 'take'. Stolen weapons are easily exchanged for cash on the street, or traded directly to suppliers in exchange for drugs. Legal gun owners sell and trade collected weapons, for financial and other reasons, and can't be expected to be able to run adequate background checks. Any dealer who is 'clean' [doesn't have a record] can legally purchase guns; there is no way to distinguish him/her from you or me . . . .
Generally speaking, there is no "big shipment of stolen weapons". There doesn't need to be to account for the number of illegal guns in circulation, or the amount of criminal activity that is armed.
I don't think there is any way to end the black market in guns, that would not also end your and my ability to own a weapon to protect ourselves [probably sooner and more effectively than it would end the black market, because you and I have some respect for the law].
Kathleen: We agree on one thing and that is that something needs to be done. You sound about as tired of the innocent "collateral damage" as anyone else. Where we disagree (and I'm going out on a ledge here as you haven't explicitly stated this) is that you would like guns taken away from all individuals. While this works in most cases (laws for the masses as the masses tend to ebb and flow with a tide) such as speed limits, there is more involved in regard to our constitution. Please tell me you don't want guns outlawed...
I just can't believe the motel would let 8 people stay in one room!!
Kathleeninthearctic,
"What about you Doug. What if the shoot out erupts by the playground and you're not there to defend the kids or their Mom's from stray bullets?"
I read a number of "Gun Blogs" every other day or so and there are a couple of them that are written by women (and at least one of them by a woman who has 'five daughters'). All of them are determined never to be a victim 'again' (at least two of them are past rape victims).
I think those "Mothers on the Playground" should be carrying to protect themselves and their children. YES, they should go to the trouble to become TRAINED in the use of guns and lethal force before they EVER pick up a gun but I think they have the right to be able to protect themselves and their children.
There was a movie back in the 1970s (I think); it starred Raquel Welsh and Robert Culp and the title of the movie was "Hannie Caulder". If you can find it on DVD, I would encourage you to rent it and watch it. It's about a woman who learns to defend and protect herself because in the time and place that the movie is "set" there was no protection for the weak (and especially for women).
I can almost bet there weren't eight people registered in the room. If there were even eight people in there and three gunmen, there would have been a lot more injuries. These stories always have erroneous information.
Japan, the right kind of democracy - NOT.
http://www.davekopel.com/2A/Foreign/Japa...
Considering that every retail drug transaction is probably 2 or 3 crimes, I'm not shocked at the statistic. There are another 125K gang members (including prison and outlaw bike gangs) in prison.
The "who is profiting" question is simplistically answered by "other criminals" since the people involved in these transactions are almost certainly breaking multiple laws. These include illegal gun retailers, other gang members, and corrupt FFL dealers.
Assuming your question isn't rhetorical, there's data that suggests the breakdown is roughly as follows:
Stolen (includes thefts from FFL dealers) - 25%
Illegal strawman purchases from FFL - 40%
Purchases from corrupt FFL - 20%
Other - black market, borrowing, etc - 15%
8% of all FFL dealers sell the majority of guns used in crimes. There is a UC Davis statistic that gets thrown around that 30% of all guns used in crimes are acquired at gun shows. It's a policy piece, not a peer reviewed study. However, these are mostly by FFL dealers. Unfortunately, the real dirty secret of the retail gun industry is that a handful of unscrupulous FFL dealers are responsible for a lot of the "crime guns."
There was a great group called "pink pistols" or something like that. The idea was that homosexuals should learn to use and carry to protect themselves from hate-related rape and assaults. I thought that was a great idea. I think anyone who is a member of a group subject to violent hate crimes should arm themselves.
No Sublime, I do not want your guns taken away. I don't even want Doug's guns taken from him. What I am asking here though is this. At what point do we all stand together against tyranny and oppression and say enough is enough. Right here in our home town. Not some flag waving pep rally but actually standing together as law abiding citizens and saying that that crackhouse on Eleanor Street or the 2100 block of Lathrop Street or Chena Court #3 or the 1200 block of 23rd or anyone of the others that I could name are closed for business. The cops can't do it because these guys are back on the streets before the paperwork is finished. Can't keep em in jail because they have rights. Just like we do. The DA..well, ya just don't get that much publicity for a crackhead. I guess they have their street cred too.
I don't know, haven't seen much evidence, that longer or harder prison terms would necessarily result in criminals coming out 'reformed'. Frequently it just seems to produce criminals more educated and connected in criminal circles and endeavors.
However, I would certainly like to see a WHOLE lot less plea bargaining for violent crimes. I think it might make the difference in some cases.
But I think the biggest progress could be made by taking the possibility/dream of huge profits [and power] out of the black market. Ending prohibition [war on drugs] would do that. Guns are expensive. Having lots of loose cash and valuable [illegal] merchandise to protect motives the purchase and use of weaponry, as does battles for ownership of drug-dealing turf, etc.
I don't think ending prohibition would end violent crime, by any means. But I think it would reduce it significantly, especially the group/gang violence, and the appeal of such activity to young people dreaming of being 'somebody' big and important.
I'm glad to hear that Kath. I too feel that it seems we are losing to the criminal element. But there is no "one size fits all" solution. I do like this excerpt from the link I posted above:
"If gun control were really such an important factor in Japan's low crime, it would also be hard to explain why Japan's murder rate is higher than Britain's (a shooter's paradise compared to Japan). Both Switzerland and Israel have many more guns per capita than even America, and require citizens to own or train with pistols and fully automatic rifles. Yet these countries have less murder and violent crime than Japan, and almost no gun crime."
I do believe that we will eventually HAVE to have more control on who/what/where/when etc. Unfortunately, more control means less freedom. And as we have been seeing first hand, lack of control leads to more chaos.
Kathleen,
"What I am asking here though is this. At what point do we all stand together against tyranny and oppression and say enough is enough..."
When ALL Liberals can preface their Anti-Gun Protests with, "We Respect the Right of All Law-Abiding Gun Owners to Have, Keep, and Use Guns WITHOUT Registration..." then Some of us on this side of the Arguement would be willing to sit down with you and discuss the issue.
We are not - I am NOT - willing to discuss Gun Registration in any shape or form (and will resist it with every fiber of my being)...
Never said anything about gun registration Doug. Put the manual down and listen to me. I'm not a liberal and I'm not a pacifist. I want to know what you think should be done about the crackheads operating with impunity right here in our Fairbanks. I want to know what you think should be done to get the weapons out of their hands. I want to know how you think we should keep kids out of their sphere of influence. I want to know exactly how you think we should protect the children sleeping in the next room or apartment. I want to know how you think we should keep the employees of the motels safe and coming home after their shift to their families.
wow what a lucky guess I had yesterday....hmmmm it was drug related.....
Doug.... all liberals are not anti gun protesters, just some on the
extreme left. Again you are painting with too wide a brush!!
Kathleen you are not listening because you do not want to hear what is being said.
Take the "crime" out of it. Legalize drugs and eliminate the "gangsters" take the money, the flash the cool.....
Banning guns, throwing people away in jail for life and wanting more enforcement is not the answer.
Or produce only hot pink bandannas....
kathleen: What do YOU think we should do about all that you questioned?
Wendee, what is it I'm not listening to? I've heard everything said here, some I agree with and some I don't. We're not going to legalize crackhouses. It ain't gonna happen in my lifetime nor in yours. So that argument is a waste of time. We need to shut down the ones that are operating here now. There are kids that can't walk to Noel Wein to do their homework because they will get hurt on the way. There are elders that can't safely leave their homes because their little bit of bingo money is enough to buy a rock or 2. I don't want the guns of law abiding citizens taken away but I would like the troops to do a neighborhood sweep and take the guns away from all the crackheads and dope dealers and all of their families and the wannabe's. I don't want crackheads to use the law to protect themselves so they can deny freedom to everyone around them.
Good question Sublime. What if we all parked in the street and shined our headlights into their operations. What if we took pictures and mounted them where everyone could see. What if we posted huge signs, we could even reuse all those campaign signs, plant them in the front yard and proclaim THIS IS A CRACKHOUSE. APARTMENT #3 AND #4 IS A CRACKHOUSE. Shine a spotlight in the window everytime you drive by so they'll flush all their product thinking it's a raid.
Those are some of my ideas...now what have you got?
Welcome to America Kathleen... Where freedom isn't free.
I hear ya about not liking crackheads with guns - dangerous combo. But to whom do we put the job of identifying them? Because you say they are one, that must mean they are? This ain't tiddly winks. You have valid concerns, which most of us share but the way in which you want to fix them is a bit draconian. Unfortunately that is probably the only way to take care of the draconian thugs.
and yes by the way, I know that the troops would be violating the civil rights of the crackheads.
Sublime, if they are skinny and twitchy and looking over their shoulders
twain,
I think you are partially right (and partially wrong). Why? If you want some of us on the 'Right' to "sit down and discuss this with you in a rational manner" then you need to admit that part of your folks on the Left to Center-Left are "irrational" when it comes to the topics of Confiscation and Registration (and we on the Right can become "rabid" on the issue of Registration (because it could lead to Confiscation).
If you want True Bi-Partisan Consensus, you have to be willing to forego FOR ALL TIME any desire to Confiscate. And because Registration has been used successfully on several occasions and in several locations around the world as a precursor to Confiscation, we will not agree to Registration (at least not in any scenerio that I am familiar with).
When we remove Registration and Confiscation from the Table, there could still be a few things that we could discuss; the question is, are you willing to discuss them if you can't get what you want (specifically, some form of Registration)?
It's like trying to get a straight answer out of a politician.
You may not want them or their families to have these rights but you are not the ruling class.
We left that all behind...
Here you cannot take my gun because my brother or my son or my mother is a felon.
People like you scare me. When I hear you make statements so broad and plainly driven by prejudice it makes me nervous that you vote.
You do not have the right because you are afraid of guns, to take mine.
I also do not want drugs and death (not only with guns but OD's also) to threaten our children (amazing how pliable we become when we believe our cause is for the children) more to the point I do not like what it does to anyone who’s life is brushed by it, but legalizing drugs is a viable option and no I do not expect crack houses to become legal and hopefully not in my lifetime but if you had the availability of a safer drug legally there is a real possibility people would no longer go for taking liquid draino or whatever they use these days.
I am not saying this will absolutely work I am saying the opposite, which is throwing people in jail is not.
im not sure who to be scared of more, a youth with a gun or a car :P
Doug, The guy in the room was using his gun in defense of self and property. They took his money and were trying to tie them up. So he is O.K. in your book?
Kathleen that is exactly why you are scary.
Skinny and twitchy and looking over their shoulders, is 15 % of our male population all of whom are diagnosed with ADHD.
Come on Wendee, you're in denial. And this isn't about race either. Crackheads and dealers come in all colors. White, native, black, latino, indian and pacific islander. That's just here in Fairbanks. I am talking about shutting down the crackhouses and the dealers that are spreading cancers in our neighborhoods. They entice children into the lifestyle and into a life time of doing crack. The dealers are multi-generational. That means that it's not just Little Joe that's out there dealing. It's Mom doing the books and Uncle working the door. I know my comment about the troops going door to door doing a neighborhood sweep was out in left field and I apologize. That was sensationalism and not necessary to this discussion. There are real people out there wasting away on crack, and I'm not talking about 14 year old kids on ridilin either. The dealers are introducing children to crack and all the aspects of selling crack. Our friends and neighbors are afraid to go out their own doors because of the violence associated with crack. This is the real world not some society discussion in a classroom.
On the other hand I'll bet there are some neighborhoods in the lower 48 who would welcome the troops going door to door to clear out the crackheads and the gangbangers. Someone to step in and defend their freedom.
truthinnews,
"...The guy in the room was using his gun in defense of self and property. They took his money and were trying to tie them up. So he is O.K. in your book?"
What you're asking me to do is to 'speculate'.
Based on my limited knowledge (that revealed in the DNM News Article), yes it is OK with me. There were allegedly 8 people in the rented room when the others knocked on the door (I don't know how the Motel would allow that but the article reports that there were 8 people in the room). One of them opened the door, the other four barged in with at least 3 guns drawn and attempted subdue the 8 who were there. One of the room occupants resisted and was shot. "Reading between the lines," I would suspect that this "distraction" allowed some of the others to draw their own guns and return fire.
The report said that 'drugs were found in the room' and it is my understanding that possession of both drugs and guns is a criminal offense. That said, however, the article also reports that no charges were filed. Huh? Bullet holes in the walls, bed, TV, and window and drugs found in the room and no one was charged or arrested? If the police could not be bothered to prefer charges, I am not prepared to "second guess" them and certainly not prepared to "second guess" the other occupants who defended themselves against those who had shot at one of their number FIRST!
Where did the drugs come from? Beats me. It could have belonged to one of the occupants of the room (without the others having any knowledge of the drugs). If this is the case, the ones who shot back are guilty of no crime that I'm aware of. The drugs could just as well have belonged to the 'invaders'; perhaps they had some 'limited' stock and thought they could find more. In that case, the original occupants of the room were completely "in the clear".
The only thing I would charge any of them with would have been failure to hit what they SHOULD have been shooting at (but since that's not yet a crime)...
To answer your question, based on the limited information presented, YES, IT IS OK WITH ME!
Headline "Conservative defends Drug Dealer's Right to Bear arms in Defense of Life, Crack and Crack profits!"
Wendee & Kathleen,
The NRA teaches 3 Rules for Safe Gun Handling. I will try to repeat them from memory but I may get them "out of order". First, Always keep your gun pointed in a safe direction until you're ready to shoot. Second, never put your finger on the trigger (or inside the trigger well) until you are ready to fire. Third, never load your gun until you are ready to shoot. Most people who carry a gun try to follow these three rules. When I carry, my gun is loaded (and not to offend those who find religion offensive, I pray that I don't have to draw my gun).
There is also a fourth "unofficial" rule that I've occasionally seen that I tend to subscribe to as well. Always know your target and what is behind it. This applies particularly when you are hunting but if I'm going to carry for self-protection in a urban / residential environment, it would be beneficial to use "Low recoil / low penetration" rounds (so there is less chance of bullets penetrating (going through) a wall.
Of course, being proficient (i.e., able to hit what you shoot at) also makes it more likely that you will "end the shooting quicker" with less injury / loss of life (except for the "bad guys"). Part of the reason for the current ammunition shortage (beyond the fact that some people are 'hoarding' out of fear of Obama) is that those of us who do shoot on a regular basis try to practice so that we are proficient (and can actually hit what we are shooting at) when we are in a "crisis mode"...
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Kathleen,
First prove the drugs belonged to the people shooting; the police have issued no charges nor have they made any arrests.
They shoulda stayed at bingo.
So how about the rights of the people in the rooms next to this room, above, below, and in the hallway, not to mention the people working. This guys right to defend his life and property outweighs their right to safety? Just wondering Doug?
hire a lawyer and sue super 8 for poor security..i can see it now
If it quacks like a duck. Are you honestly defending all of those people in that room? Do you think they didn't know? And we're not talking about law abiding citizens here Doug. We aren't talking about people who practice safe gun. I want them to follow the laws of the land but if they won't then I want the justice system to see that they will obey the laws of the land. Now, we all know that these people just don't care about the laws of the land, the justice system is a joke to them, doing time in prison just adds to their reputation and ruthlessness. So we're back to the original problem. Gangbangers on the street with weapons, plying their trade.
Kathleen, do you support the death penalty? I do and it would work really well to remove the repeat offenders you talk about, would it not?
Plying their trade in motel rooms, apartment buildings (like Chena Court, Anderson Apartments, Stacia street), houses in neighborhoods by schools and playgrounds. Some of the big suppliers operate on the periphery, they supply the smaller dealers from houses in your neighborhood out in Salcha, from North Pole and University West. How about over in Slaterville? The cops know who the players are but can't touch them. When they do make a bust or a shoot out occurs like this one or the one at the apartments on Dunkle street, no one saw anything. No one remembers anything. Lawyers come in and say no evidence, no proof and within a few short days it's business as usual.
Good question. Do I have the right to say who deserves to live and who deserves to die?
Anyone not "Packin" should be fined. Idiots tend not to go for gunplay if both sides are known to be "Packin".
Yes, I do support the death penalty. I believe that there are some crimes that are so heinious that the death penalty can be the only true justice.
Like those who murdered John Hart deserves to die for that crime. However I don't believe the men who are serving time for that murder are the ones who did it.
I meant John Hartman by the way.
Doug..... been gone , but back now. Im a strong supporter of the second amendment. Part of my reasoning of dropping away from the
democrat party was their strong stance at that time on some forms of
gun control. I dont think I have to debate with anyone on how strong I am for the right to keep and bear arms. my support is total. That
doesnt mean I am in agreement politically with many who scream that
if you are more liberal in your views of the direction the country
should go your out to take their guns away. Doug Id almost bet you that I have more guns than you. And i would resist any attempt to
restrict or take away my guns. But I will continue to oppose the
direction the right wingers want to take this country.
WHATS THE BIGGEST FRONT PAGE ARTICLE SINCE 1990 IN FAIBANKS??
PULP FICTION STYLE!!!!!!!!!!!!! Shoot everything except the intended target
PUSH IT BABY PUSH IT BABY OUTTA CONTROL I GOT MY GUN COCKED BABY AN IM READY TO ROLL, LOVE IS JUST ANOTHER WORD I NEVER LEARNED TO PRONOUNCE....GOOD SONG GOOD SONG...
I believe that would be up to the law, Kathleen.
truthinnews,
"So how about the rights of the people in the rooms next to this room, above, below... in the hallway... the people working. This guys right to defend his life and property outweighs their right to safety? Just wondering..."
Yes, it does. One reason for using "low recoil, low penetration" rounds and it also suggests some "range time" might be beneficial.
Was watching a program about William Butler "Wild Bill" Hickok a few months back and they described one gunfight he was in where his opponent drew and fired first (and missed obviously) and from 75 paces away, "Wild Bill" fired one round and hit him in the heart.
Marksmanship can cut WAY DOWN on the extraneous damage to walls, windows, beds, and TVs (not to mention innocent bystanders). "Two to the chest" will put an end to a bad guys' "spray and pray" method of marksmanship.
Kathleen writes:
"You can jump up and down and scream but it really doesn't change the facts that our founding fathers never would have envisioned a world like the one we live in today."
Nope, I prefer to believe that our Founding Fathers would be fascinated by the world we live in today. The technologies, sciences, and medicines they envisioned in their dreams are taken for granted today. I also think our Founding Fathers would be particularly intrigued/disturbed by just how oppressive and controlling the self-interests have become in this country. I think they would be interested in discovering just where any citizen gets the idea they have the right to control or dictate another individual's actions or beliefs. I think the devout Deists who helped found our country would be very disturbed by the multitudes living here today who don't share their same commitment to betterment of the individual soul through belief in a higher power; that they would use discussion and reason instead of lawsuits to attempt to change minds.
In bad grammar, but also written by Kathleen: "Full of junkies and gangbangers and unstable lovesick men and right wing nuts and left wing nuts and perverts around most every corner."
I hope you realize you just described colonial America in a very succinct run on sentence. All drugs were legal back then including alcohol in higher concentrations than the BATF will allow today. The Colonial Army was routinely referred to by the British and the Torys as gangs of drunken criminals and agitators. I've heard it said that there is nothing new under the sun and I agree. I have seen nothing that has occurred in my life to make me think it hasn't happened previously to someone else.
Another point, firearms manufacturers, gun stores, and private citizens cannot legally sell firearms to criminals as ironically enough, it's illegal and a criminal act under existing law.
I too have lost friends to suicides. Whether by gun, alcohol, car, knife, broken glass, or hanging (to name a few friends gone) I choose to remember them as they were; to know that there was nothing I could do to prevent the act from happening and to take a lesson from their sacrifice. Suicide is a finite end to a life of possibilities. As long as there is life there is still hope and the possibility that things can get better.
Voltaire- thank you for not getting your info from the VPC/Brady bunch. Too many choose to quote jaded sources as factual information.
Kinda like those polls showing Obama is still favored among Democrats, a little redundant don'tcha think? (Sorry, had to put Obama in here somewhere.)
At Kathleen again: are you certain the impressions you're attributing to the young man are not your own preceptions? Is it an objective opinion of a picture or an objection based on your individual opinions? As an aside, semi-automatic rifles of that and similar types are widely used for hunting and sport target shooting on a daily basis. As to your proposal of martial law in our cities I shudder to hear the hidden intent behind your words. Martial law or military occupation of US soil means a suspension of civil liberties for the duration of the military occupation. Read and understand the UCMJ before you advocate for martial law to 'fix' a situation. The pop culture celebration of 'gangsta' culture and irresponsibility, irreverence, and anarchic society is what I pinpoint as the source of the perceived approval for those images. The antidote is parents making such behavior unacceptable in their homes and educating their children in the responsible exercising of their rights and responsibilities.
Alaskaman100 and Doug_in_Salcha- You've both presented some good points although I'm not sure they registered with everyone who read them.
At 'rational'citizen: you left out that Japan also has the world's highest suicide rate per capita, firearms not withstanding. Harai Kiri, Sepukku, ever heard of it?
Doug_in_Salcha- the individual Khamphanh was illegally in possession of said firearm he was using to defend himself. Sounds like he needs a new 'line' of work...preferably making license plates.
The solutions as I see them are these: parents teaching their children responsiblity and accountability; yes that means strong clear disciplinary measures, enforcement of current laws i.e. no lawyer barganing of sentences, and taking a page from Israel and Switzerland's book by facing the fact firearms aren't going away and to require all citizens of our nation to be familiar with the safe operation and use of firearms.
twain,
You may indeed have more guns than I do; it is sufficient for me that I have more than I can comfortably carry to my car at any given time.
If you are resistant to the idea of Registration and/or Confiscation, then you and I are "on the same page" in that regard (but I do ask that you keep in mind that not all of your Liberal friends share your 'enlightened' attitude regarding guns and the 2nd Amendment). I really don't care if you want all of the rest of President Obama's Political Agenda.
We can argue about them all day long about the rest of it because we each have the will and political influence to fight for what we want. As long as each of us have the "firepower" to keep the other circumspect (or polite if you prefer) we must each tolerate the other's point of view.
Yes, I know, it bears a certain unpleasant resemblance to Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD) but that is the only way that we can exist in a world as imperfect as this one is...
use_your_head,
"...Khamphanh was illegally in possession of said firearm he was using to defend himself. Sounds like he needs a new 'line' of work... preferably making license plates."
If he was, then I agree with you that he does need to learn a new trade (like stamping out license plates). I didn't know that and the original DNM Article did not make that clear. If they've updated the article (or you are privy to other information), then I will accept your contention (and agree with it).
The Law is clear that the Right to Keep and Bear Arms is a Limited Right; it is limited to Citizens or Legal Resident Aliens who NOT been judged mentally incompetent and who've NOT lost the Right to keep and use fire arms by virtue of having committed a Felony Crime (and Yes, before you remind me that there are other "reasons" I will admit that there are but the ones I've cited are the primary ones).
If Mr. Khamphanh did not 'qualify' to have the gun that he used, then you're right he needs to face the consequences of his actions. Unfortunately, those 'consequences' are all too often a "slap on the wrist" these days...
Doug- I read laketrout and hckywtchr's posts regarding said individual. hckywtchr posted "Anchorage 3AN-09-08569CR" as a reference and after looking through the court system records Mr. Khamphanh was due to appear 21 October for Superior Court Criminal Pre-Trial Conference for felon in possession- a class c felony with Judge Jack Smith presiding.
The founding fathers wouldn't be disturbed, they would be flat out pissed off. mad because the judicial system has failed and offenders are allowed to create more victims. the people who have exagerated the "civil rights" of these repeat offenders, would actually have someone to answer to. there is not much of an incentive to stay out of jail. free food, cable, recess, no work, no responsibilities. why not give them a reason to stay out of jail. bread and water. manual labor everyday. the occasional excecution. these would create an environment people would try there hardest to avoid. so why no start there. why do you think the crime rate has consistantly and exponentially increased, less and less motivation. less and less punishment. start caning people instead of fining them. excecute them instead of giving them a life sentence. poor salt on the leeches of our society. do something!!
It's great that our forefathers fought and died so that we could have the freedom to own guns while thinking that they'll protect us (when they're far more likely to simply end up being used to collect dust or commit crime). Yay guns! http://tinyurl.com/l6ezh5
Thanks guns are sooo great some real entertainment there. Where are you from?
Pat
Plea Bargain anyone.
Gunmen don't need jailtime, the guns do; right?
pmcgraw, guns_are_soooo_great is probably from Chicago.
Kathleen I was not talking about race. I was talking about your prejudice against guns- a preformed opinion, usually an unfavorable one, based on insufficient knowledge, irrational feelings, or inaccurate stereotypes.
Denial no, I don't know that it would work.. like I said I know the opposite has not.
Wendee, I'm not against guns. I'm against guns in the hands of children. Irrational feelings? Inaccurate stereotypes? You tell me one thing I've said about gangbangers or the danger they are putting innocent people in that is innacurate. Irrational? Angry is more like it. Maybe you are blind to what is really happening out there but I can assure you it is very real and there are good kind people suffering and living in fear because of it. The cops can't fight this alone. The justice system...well...I think we covered that one sufficiently. Don't turn a blind eye or minimize this problem. That's what the gangbangers do when you shine a light on their operations.
These shoot outs are over turf. Either everyone sells for them or they don't sell at all. It's a fight for profits.
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You don't have to be in a gang to get yourself into trouble. Blaming gangs is just a way to not blame her grandchildren.
"An armed society is a polite society."
Hooray for dumb slogans! We are an armed society. We are not a polite society. I have visited other armed societies that also were not polite. Or safe. The most polite societies that I have visited were not substantially armed. Of course, that does not mean that there is a correlation between gun ownership and politeness, positive or negative. It just means that the slogan is stupid.
And then there's the "if he didn't have a gun he would have used something else" argument. It's ridiculous. Yes, violence exists without guns, but when guns are involved the injuries are much more likely to be serious or fatal. This is also true for suicidal people. Depressed people with access to guns are much more likely to end up dead. That's a fact. It's also a huge problem in our own state.
By all means, defend your second amendment rights, but try to make sense while you're doing it. You can address the other side's arguments thoughtfully, or you can resort to mindless sloganeering.
Hint: If you've seen it on a T-shirt or a bumper sticker, then it shouldn't be coming out of your mouth (or keyboard).
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