Letter to the Editor
Be respectful
Published Wednesday, October 21, 2009
Digg
delicious
Facebook
Mixx
Reddit
Stumble It!As a temporary resident in Fairbanks from Gustavus, I was disappointed to see the “60-inch Club” in your newspaper glorifying the taking of large bull moose from local populations.
As I read these accounts, I found myself strongly hoping a few things: that the people who took these large moose were grateful and gave thanks to the moose whose lives will feed them and to the great land that supports such creatures; that Alaska moose populations can stay large and strong despite regular extraction of prime breeding males in the name of a “trophy” (see Coltman et al. “Undesirable evolutionary consequences of trophy hunting”. Nature Dec. 11 2003; 426, 6967.); and that as a society we will move beyond glorifying the killing of the biggest of any species, and instead celebrate our privilege of living in a land vast enough to supply us with much of our yearly protein, with gratitude and respect.
Community Discussion
Newsminer.com doesn't necessarily condone the comments here, nor does it review every post. Read our full user's agreement.
I don't get it. Is this just a part of the letter?
I get it ... and understand exactly what the writer is saying.
Yep, hunters should start going after the yearlings
Is that really how you read it, escoria? Or are you just being a jackass? 'Cause, given how intelligent, thoughtful, and sensitive the writer appears to be, there's no call for that.
Just a friendly suggestion here. Being from Gustavus, Tania may not be aware of the fact that in many areas in Fairbanks hunters are required to harvest only large older bulls that are not the prime breeders. Part of my family hunts in a game management area where they must harvest only very young (spike fork) bulls or much older bulls with at least a 50 inch antler spread or at least 4 brow tines on one side. This is designed to protect the prime breeders (younger bulls)who can breed many fertile cows. So, it seems to me, that the anti-hunters attack hunters who are forced to take larger bulls in order to get meat for the freezer as "trophy hunters" knowing full well that the selective harvest of older bulls past their breeding prime is required as active management for a return to abundance. And, by the way, Alaska moose populations have a long way to go before they are large and strong. Sounds to me like Tania is probably a student at UAF in a class full of future "conservationists." I was there myself once and it took years for me to find out thatmuch of what I was taught wasn't based on fact but rather on philosophy.
And, by the way, I thank God (not the animal) for supplying our families with the bounty of His harvest. And I am also so thankful when I hear that the animals we feed our family with died swiftly - many times without even knowing humans were nearby - rather than being torn apart and eaten while still alive by a wolf pack or bear.
Excellent letter
Very thoughtful letter. The writer sees themselves as part and not superior to the cycle of life.
noone- that's not exactly a popular position up here...unfortunately.
Excellent letter.
friendly is right. The really big bulls are past-prime for breeding. This negates the author's biological theory, however, I suspect that it's the social theory that the author is truly concerned about. She is opposed to the idea of trophy hunting. Somehow, I doubt that the author would feel the same way about a big king salmon or halibut.
i just love it when we get people who come to alaska and then want to impart the values of where they came from. like the drive by shootings that do not hit what they are shooting at, game laws and other things.
Gustavus is in Alaska, brainiac.
Typical liberal hogwash. Absolutely no thought at all or logic in this article, only emotion.
Mcgilla is right, quit trying to bestow your non Alaskan values on the rest of us. We have enough of our own problems without your imported, distorted concerns.
Mundus_Vult_Decipi, I'm going to have to refer you to the post right above yours.
"Somehow, I doubt that the author would feel the same way about a big king salmon or halibut."
.... or a giant cabbage.
They're all living things and they're all food. Some are bigger than others.
Prospector, the author is talking about the removal of prime breeding males from the species and the effect this will have on the population. If it were our habit to harvest all cabbages before they could go to seed, you might be concerned.
It may be that the moose with the largest racks are not the best for breeding, or best for the species. I don't know; I'm no wildlife biologist. But the author's principle is sound, even if her facts aren't: we need to be careful about the effect our hunting preferences have on moose populations and the evolutionary pressure we put on them. (If we hunt for the largest males, we're giving smaller males a survival advantage that will be passed on to other small males.) So correct her facts if you need to, but please don't trivialize her point by glibly claiming that moose are only food and differ from cabbages only in size.
Tania Lewis
You should go to the Fish and Game advisory meeting tonight 7 pm Alpine Lodge. You could also apply for a job with Fish and Game. Then you may be able to meet the people that you imply have no respect for the game they kill. You might be surprised what you learn.
The writer reflects the best thinking among wildlife biologists and others who do research with animal populations. Removing the largest animals repeatedly over time does have a detrimental impact on the size and quality of the population.
If my memory serves me correctly, this idea emerged from the overfishing on the Grand Banks. The cod populations there have never recovered, and the current thinking is that removal of the largest fish have caused a permanent change in the population and the kind of fish found there.
The research makes sense to me. Larger animals pass on their size and vigor to the next generation; hunting those animals before they can pass on their genes prevents that from happening.
I don't mind the meat from a younger male moose. They're usually better tasting than one of those larger, older males.
The real controversy will come when folks along the river here are asked to let the largest kings go forth and multiply and take only the jacks.
I'd like to do what I can to see the fish and game thrive forever. If that means leaving the largest to breed and multiply, it's a small thing to ask.
gustavus is in the area where the haidi and tlingit live. it is a native belief an animal gives itself to a hunter if the hunter is pure of heart, respectful and worthy. the hunter needs to properly thank the animal for giving itself to him. meanwhile in western culture the hunter is more apt to give thanks to the creator of the moose and the ecosystem that allows it to live and procreate. (or if he is athiest, give thanks to himself and his hunting ability)
so i think that a white (or black, asian or hispanic) hunter can seem pretty callous when they don't appear to give proper respect to the harvested animal. it's cultural differences. then you have groups who might think the animal is not fit to eat. then you have gaianistic folks who believe you shouldn't take the moose at all. then you have earth firsters who think you should give yourself to the moose to eat because the moose is more important than a human. whatever! we can all try and be at least a little respectful and understanding of each others ways. i should put that word "try" in italics. because everyone gets a little weary of having to be so accepting of people who seem outright weird or stupid. but as long as we aren't pointing the hunting rifles at each other we're doing ok.
I doubt most RESIDENTS go hunting just for the TROPHY aspect. Yes, a large rack is nice to brag about, but ALL hunters I have been around, regardless of the bravado of the kill, still cut ALL the meat and ate it!
A lot of the Gustavanians eat fish and are not accustomed to hearing of such large killings. Because fish aren't as big as moose. Being from the interior we see dead moose. And they're big and we are used to that. A lot of fish aren't 60 inches long, and that sounds big. So shes surprised. Moose are elegant creatures too...so to think of them actually being shot and killed, let alone eaten, its overwhelming.
Friendly, you took the words right out of my mouth. May I also add that every moose that our family has taken, has been thanked for every night at dinnertime prayer and that our children understand that a life was sacrificed so we could have healthy meat instead of beef.
We thoroughly enjoy watching moms and calves and revel in the majesty of the bulls when it's not hunting season. It's not as if we look on these animals with a large target on their backs.
The pictures aren't to glorify the killing of trophy sized animals. If you grow a huge cabbage in your garden or end up with a really weird shaped carrot, and then take a picture to share with others- is that glorifying? Taking of large animals is mostly a matter of chance and abiding by law. Hunting is an interest to many people around here. I saw people I knew in the photo spread and thought more of a "Good Job" or "Lucky You" to have that much meat for your family than any sort of negativity.
Maybe species are getting smaller because of man in a diferent way. If they are smaller, lighter and faster they can run and hide from man easier. If predators get speedier running away from man, then the prey better get with the program if they want to stay in the game. Maybe hunting pressures have nothing to do with 'largest specimen' die out.
Biology is too complex to point to a single cause in new phenomenon.
Maybe its bad weeds. Makes the prey puny. Makes the predators puny.
Maybe moose are turning into picky eaters. Their single-mother homes are effecting them by being too indulgent. (hee-hee)
I agree with the letter. My family has hunted for decades, but my dad refuses to enter himself in the "60-inch club" because trophies are not what hunting should be about. We should be thankful that the land provides for us.
I wonder where the writer places himself in the food chain.....
I would suspect olypopper somewhere right around a snowshoe hare...heh heh
First off, the bulls with 60+" racks have already bred many times... there is no genetic loss by culling them; and secondly, while I agree with respecting and being thankful for all of nature, giving thanks to the moose for "giving" itself to you for your consumption is a religious belief that should not be pushed upon non-believers.
Its amazing Large Moose have been harvested over 100 years in Alaska.
And yet,, they are still getting large.
To her credit, Ms. Lewis does have some education on the matter ("As a wildlife biologist in charge of managing wildlife-human interactions in a large Alaskan National Park.." http://joomla.wildlife.org/index.php?opt... ), but is obviously out of her element here in the Interior, as friendly's post proves.
It seems that if the uber-large are really beyond their mating prime,then this LttE is merely emotional drivel. It would be interesting to hear from Ms. Lewis' reply to this flaw in her argument.
(I would also like for her to have pointed out that she's a wildlife biologist, but dobie has gotten me used to people hiding affiliations to further their agenda.)
Paul -- "But the author's principle is sound, even if her facts aren't:"
How do you feel about principles based on falsehoods?
redpoll -- you make an error in your logic. The very fact that a moose is very big implies that he is: older and bigger; therefore, he has already passed his genes in previous mating seasons. Biological rationale dictates that you don't want to remove those young, rutting bulls with those characteristics from the gene pool until after they've had at least several years of mating behind them. Ergo, antler restrictions.
JoeParks -- "Its amazing Large Moose have been harvested over 100 years in Alaska.
And yet,, they are still getting large."
Exactly.
OH FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!!! If you are a meat eater, what difference does it make weather you get your meat from the grocery store or the back woods?? It's meat, eat it and live.
My family personally knows at least one of the hunters in the stories dicussed. He is very grateful to the animal for the meat it provides.
I'm pretty sure he doesn't worship the animal, but he sure does enjoy eating it.
My two cents. I agree with the article. But only because I come from a small village where our tradition and culture is to respect everyone and everything. When we are blessed with getting a moose, we use everything that will either feed or cloth us. What we don't use, we put by a lake some where far away. By doing this, were saying, "Thank you" and showing it respect that we used as much of it as we can. Also, by doing this, were wishing it come back to us the next year to bless our family. When I first seen the "60 inch Club" I was happy these people were blessed with a moose and amazed at how big the moose was. When I told my mom about it she said "that's like bragging you got a moose." Thus, giving yourself bad luck. I hope this made sense.
Congratulations to the hunters! Wish it were me.
Why do hunters continue to hide behind the "I eat what I harvest" excuse. I enjoy hunting and I enjoy eating what I harvest. I would also love to be in the 60 inch club. Every hunter I know would love to get a large moose. Do they shoot smaller moose and eat them? Yes. Would they like a trophy set of antlers? Yes. Are they mean and evil people out to destroy the wildlife population? No. So stop lying to yourself and others about why you hunt. Would you be satisfied if a truck pulled up each year and dropped off a moose carcass? I don’t think so. So just because you like the meat doesn't prevent you from enjoying the pleasures of hunting.
I believe some of you are confusing animals with horns and animals with antlers.
Animals with horns continue to grow those horns throughout their life, and by the time they get big enough to be considered a trophy animal it is possible that they are past their prime and no longer breed.
Animals with antlers such as moose shed and re-grow their antlers annually. They grow their biggest antlers when they are in the prime of life. Once past their prime, antlers start getting smaller.
During the rut (breeding season) bulls collect cows for their harem. The biggest, strongest bulls get the most cows and consequently do most of the breeding.
So when a big bull is taken, it is probable that a prolific breeder with good genetics is being taken out of the gene pool.
How much that affects the future antler size of bulls in the herd probably depends on many factors.
I am neither advocating nor condemning the taking of big bulls.
Also, I believe that if you do some research you will find that the purpose of the spike / fork or 50 inch rule is to give more bulls a chance to grow to maturity.
Large antlers doesn't mean genetic superiority. You can take the same animal and by changing its diet come up with different results in size. Pretty simplistic thinking. Also, traits that carry-on the species determines superiority, like adaptability. Countless times in the earths history smaller survived and larger died due to enviromental changes. In the lower 48, the coyote flurishes and the wolf is all but gone. Which creature is superior?
well I just know this.... we as hunters for the yearly moose in the freezer are usually not too picky about the moose we get. Yes..some do pass up smaller animals in favor of a larger animal. I do not disagree there. However.. most people go into the woods, wait along areas where moose cross etc to get their meat in the freezer. MOST of us do not stand there visually measuring the antlers to see if its 60 inch and or larger moose before we shoot it. Most of spot a bull moose and we take that bull moose because it IS what we are out there for. If we drop that big bull and measure it and find its over 60 inches..thats great...but on the same token.. large antlers or not.. the meat is underneath that big body and that is what MOST of care about..the meat. But hey... if a person is blessed with a Trophy sized animal while looking for their meat FIRST why not be excited about the antlers that came with it?....its fun to share it. It just awesome that God created such magnificent creatures for us to enjoy later on.
Please don't assume we ALL go out antler hunting. Most of us know that antlers don't taste very well and are pretty tough to chew on.
You want to get tough with any hunters, get tough with the ones that spend THOUSANDS of dollars to find a Trophy animal FIRST and often waste the meat in the end.. flying up here to be flown out with hired pilots to get them to prime area's... many with camps that make our homes look pretty poor.... then they shoot their animal and guess what next? they leave the meat with someone else and go home with the hide and antlers first and foremost. Get tough with THAT group of hunters...
JustMe -- "then they shoot their animal and guess what next? they leave the meat with someone else and go home with the hide and antlers first and foremost. Get tough with THAT group of hunters..."
I don't get why this should bother you. As long as there is no wanton waste of meat and someone benefits from it, like the local potlatch, why should it matter? These hunters bring in much needed cash to bush economies.
During my time in southern Africa bundu, the locals required that trophy hunters leave the meat for the village. Afterall, the heads and hides were inedible and the least useful part of the animal.
I'm glad you shoot little bulls Sandcrab!
also realize that the money from the out of state hunters goes into our economy. the tag and liscence fees go to the management and preservation of the species. it allows for more. the money to the guide and the rest of a hunters expenses gets filtered into our economy. while the taking of the antlers and leaving the meat is a disappointing practice, the big majority of the alaskan hunters do care primarily about the meat and its a bonus to get a big rack.
lets not forget that those evil ole antlers cant be eaten but can be sold for $6- $12 a pound. That sure helps a family with only a once a year dividend and no welfare.
Trophy hunters looking for big bull?
I know alot of posters in these comment sections that should be shakin in their boots!
I don't get this letter at all, I really don't.
It is o.k. to celebrate getting a record size fish but not a moose? The author of this letter judges the hunters to be shallow but I judge the author to be the the one missing it. The hunter's tags and tickets help pay for the management and care of these animals. When they admire their trophy for years to come I would imagine that they would be "grateful and respectful" when ever they look at it.
"Be respectful"
Recording record hunts is a tradition in Fairbanks that goes back for as long as people have needed something to talk about. It's something that is part of our culture and as a visitor it would be INCREDIBLY DISREPECTFRUL for you to start insulting our traditions.
The idea that you'd come here and dictate to Fairbanks what they should find pride in and what they should find shame in is very oppressive. You have your way of looking at things and others have theirs, but you have a very public judgement of other's ways and that's just not cool.
Not everyone in Gustavus works for the National Park Circus, and rest assured that even the granolas would take a 60" moose, if there were any that big.
I really think the author is writing to decry the practice of boasting of one's kill, rather than the killing and use of the animal. In some Alaskan cultures, boasting of one's prowess or hunting success is a social faux pas, sort of like bringing a ham to a bar mitzvah. Perhaps it is more similar to the mainstream societies taboo against boasting of one's wealth. In any event, it is considered to be disrespectful to the animal that has given its life to support the lives of humans.
I don't know if that is the case in the region around Gustavus, but I do think that respect for the resource is an important concept for most hunters, even if we show that respect in different ways.
Post a comment
Commenting requires registration.